Je Suis Charlie

[JeSuisCharlie]

You have the right to be offended. I have the right to believe in what I want. We should learn from the pupils that we can be aware of differing opinions without the cancel culture
Join me if you agree with three small words...

My mistake, I was confusing this with an incident a while back where the school closed.

@ittakes2

I think context is everything. When it comes to sex ed in schools parents are informed it is going to happen, told what the kids will be learning and given the choice to opt their child out or not. Free speech is not really free speech if you make someone see or listen to something they find deeply offensive. This was not an adult situation where the adult could just walk away if they did not want to be involved.

This.

With regard to what has actually happened at the school, I would prefer to know the facts before coming to a decision - isn't the purpose of free speech and debate about that? I certainly don't agree with mob rule or intimidation either. But:
(a) I do wonder at the intelligence of a teacher who shows such cartoons knowing that they will cause offense to many Muslims and knowing the school has many Muslim pupils
and (b) I wonder, perhaps speculatively, whether it would make a difference to our outraged posters if they discovered, for example, that the teacher also happened to be a member of an extremist right wing group

But no, I am not Charlie. I don't like the magazine, but the difference is that it is freely merchandised and people can choose whether or not they want to buy it. Equally, if people want to sit at their computer as individuals and look up images that others find offensive, then (within the law) that is up to them. Pupils in a a classroom are under the power and authority of a teacher, and do not have the right to make choices about what they do or don't wish to see. It is therefore incumbent on a teacher, whilst encouraging free speech and critical thinking, to do so in a way that does not misuse that authority - this teacher crossed that line whatever the circumstances.

I also wonder if everyone would be showing solidarity if he'd been showing them pictures from a pornographic magazine to encourage free speech and critical thinking... No, I thought not. So I wonder why free speech only seems to matter when it comes to images of the prophet that people know will cause offence.

Have you seen the the cartoons Charlie Hebdo published in response to the mass kidnapping of schoolgirls?
There are so many other murder victims that I would identify with before identifying with those viciously racist misogynists.

I think you lose any moral high ground you might have had when you make death threats towards someone for doing something you disagree with.

That is the mindset of those who shot up the CH office .

The fact that children are being denied an education is just completely fucking ridiculous.
From reading the comment from a child who was in the lesson, ("We was talking about, we was looking at") it seems that the education is sadly inadequate.

Cam77, are you seriously trying to deny the existence of systematic human rights abuses in the Uighur camps in Xinjiang?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-55794071
www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/12/uighur-xinjiang-re-education-camp-china-gulbahar-haitiwaji
www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/25/turkey-says-conveyed-sensitivity-about-uighurs-to-china
www.varsity.co.uk/interviews/19990
www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/09/china-up-to-one-million-detained/
www.ft.com/content/a3caa2a4-ed9d-485e-b739-b794e74875eb

Horrified the teacher has been suspended. I hope it's for their protection more then anything

[quote Cam77]@flashbac
Re:Xinjinag. China has had a policy for decades of offering a student of a Muslim ethnic places at universities with far fewer points than necessary for Han students, as well as allowing Muslims exemption from the one child policy for decades. I wouldn’t believe all you read about Xinjiang. Not from the establishment and dutiful press that brought you Vietnam, Iraq, and going back a bit more brutalized it’s Irish neighbours and sailed 3,000 miles to steal Hong Kong and burn to the ground arguably the most beautiful architectural site in the world. Welcome to the first decade of the West’s new war on China.[/quote]
lol they do this with all ethnic minorities, including Tibetans. Are they not oppressed too?

Oh, and African-Americans can get into Harvard with lower SAT scores. Guess they can wrap up BLM, no issues there 🙄🤪

Pupils in a a classroom are under the power and authority of a teacher, and do not have the right to make choices about what they do or don't wish to see

On that basis, we maybe need to suspend teaching about the horrors of the holocaust, just in case it upsets someone.

Totally.

Freedom from violence for use of a cartoon

@OnlyheretovoteonAIBU

I think you lose any moral high ground you might have had when you make death threats towards someone for doing something you disagree with.

That is the mindset of those who shot up the CH office .

100%

death threats are NEVER acceptable

@AllesAusLiebe

Pupils in a a classroom are under the power and authority of a teacher, and do not have the right to make choices about what they do or don't wish to see

On that basis, we maybe need to suspend teaching about the horrors of the holocaust, just in case it upsets someone.

We are not talking about "upset", although I would certainly expect any teacher to be mindful of the potential impact it could have and to manage their material accordingly. We are talking about showing pupils something that everyone knows for a fact is offensive to many pupils in that room.

There is no such thing as "free speech" - the right to say and do whatever you want has always been curtailed by the law. That is why, for example, we have hate crime laws. There is no right to be offensive. And there is simply no possibility that a UK teacher could not know this, or know the offense that would cause.

I do not agree with threats of violence against the teacher, but there we go - I guess those people outside the school are just expressing their right to free speech.

Anyone who says Je Suis Charlie has never looked at the magazine. They made a ‘funny’ cartoon featuring the school girls who were kidnapped in Nigeria joking that they were now pregnant because they had been mass raped.

I obviously would never condone the staff being shot but I will never align with vile racist misogynists who make their living from punching down rather than questioning those in power.

Will they ever draw a ‘funny’ cartoon about Macrons family members being raped or their botched vaccine roll out killing thousands, the Bettencourts and French political corruption which is endemic?

Obviously the teacher shouldn’t be receiving death threats but he should be sacked for being stupid because he’s clearly extremely dim for not understanding you don’t show an offensive picture in a lesson to kids whether you think it’s offensive or not. It’s well known to be offensive to millions. If the kids had wanted to debate All Men Matter would he have shown a slide show of mutilated women?

I also have bet the OP would. It be proclaiming free speech if I decided to go up to her kids and loudly call them fucking ugly etc.

Meant ‘Not All Men’!

So this is mumsnet so most posters are parents, yet posters support a magazine that finds children being kidnapped and raped funny. Ah yes, because CH only find the rape of non-white children funny, just like they only find it funny when non-white people are murdered

By saying I am charlie you are saying you find children being raped amusing, you are also saying you find passenger planes being blown up funny, you are also saying you’re happy when a child refugee dies.

@SimonJT

So this is mumsnet so most posters are parents, yet posters support a magazine that finds children being kidnapped and raped funny. Ah yes, because CH only find the rape of non-white children funny, just like they only find it funny when non-white people are murdered

By saying I am charlie you are saying you find children being raped amusing, you are also saying you find passenger planes being blown up funny, you are also saying you’re happy when a child refugee dies.

Literally this. I am surprised. Especially on Mumsnet there is a double standard. We see a lot of posts highlighting the poor behaviour of men. Which it should be e.g. domestic violence, men being creepy and men needing to check their privilege etc... I totally agree with it all.

But when someone of another minority group e.g. black, Muslim try and explain why something is offensive, racist, not right etc you get people saying stuff like how they are not racist cause they know black people, Muslims etc.. It seems some people are happy to ask others to check their privilege but they aren't willing to look at their own. Like men do not know what it is like to live as a woman, white people can't possibly know what it is like to be targeted for being black. Evidence shows black people especially suffer the worst discrimination e.g. stop and search, stereotyped as being aggressive, black women's health is not taking as seriously as white women etc...

@Chaiandkaafee, I see the point you are trying to make - but I wasn't aware Islam was a 'race'.

You can disapprove of a religion without being racist.

It was quite possible to have a debate on the use of cartoons and images used by CH without actually showing them, especially in a majority Muslim school. Freedom of speech is always balanced with responsibility, which does not appear to have been exercised in this case. It would be wholly offensive to show these to any of my adult muslin friends and I would not dream of doing so. In the same PSE classes a number of topics are discussed, for example pornography. Would we suggest that this debate would be better if our children were shown such videos as part of the class? I think not. For the record, the reaction which has forced the teacher into hiding is also totally wrong and if threats to safety are being made, arrests and prosecutions should follow.

100% agree.

As pp have said. Anyone proudly proclaiming 'Je Suis Charlie' should make sure they are aware of what they are supporting.

Cartoon mocking the death of Alan Kurdi.

Cartoons mocking a fatal plane crash.

...for example.

@Brainwave89 I totally agree.

Completely disagree with the OP. Either you don't have a clue what you are talking about, or you are a supporter of using racism and misogyny to make money.

Hopefully the former!

@topcat2014 members of the lgbt community are not one race either.

@Chaiandkaafee - yes, correct, but we have decided as a country that homophobia is bad - and an aggravating factor in criminal offences.

We have not, as a country, decided that criticising peoples choice of faith is wrong.

And another one mocking Alan Kurdi.

Be aware that the article includes an image of his body, so don't click unless you support that kind of 'humour'.