My husband says “notallmen”

[Lastchancesalonco]

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

@aSofaNearYou

Indeed not all men are bad but we will continue to regard them as such. How do they prove they aren't? They can't.

But more importantly, why is this the issue that concerns you most?

Because key to the problem is men changing and for that to be recognised. It's 'men' in general but also individuals. You raise a son to be a decent well mannered caring person and tell him you're proud of him but don't be upset that everyone else regards you as a potential thug.

It's sad, but its life.

What’s your point then @BigFatLiar? Never to get in a relationship with anyone?

@BigFatLiar but you are still centring poor men and their sad feelings at feeling disempowered. That isn't the most important thing here.

I read BigFatLiar's point as being that it's really, really hard to tell which men are bad. Also that people can behave well at one time, badly at another. (Plus a lot of crime and sub-criminal abuse and harassment is opportunistic). There is no 'snapshot assessment' you can do, for example of the people on an urban street, that could flag up 'two bad ones and ten good ones here'.

That's one reason why we need to focus on behaviours, not individuals.

Ver' small point of order, but it's important we realise that pre-pubescent girls are also at risk of sexual assault, abuse, violence, and harassment. They aren't protected by virtue of their age. Sadly.

You raise a son to be a decent well mannered caring person and tell him you're proud of him but don't be upset that everyone else regards you as a potential thug.

Alternatively you raise a son to be a decent well mannered caring person and tell him you're proud of him, but sadly not all men are raised in such a way, and in order to protect themselves from assault, rape, and possibly murder, women who cannot tell which kind of guy you are at a glance, will quite possibly assume you are a potential risk, because they cannot afford to give you the benefit of the doubt. And it's okay to be upset about that, but don't direct that upset at women, direct it at the men whose behaviour means that this is the way women have to live their lives.

@PurpleDaisies

What’s your point then *@BigFatLiar*? Never to get in a relationship with anyone?

If you view all men are bad then pretty much that as several have already said they intend

Hear hear mbosnz

Sorry about the lack of full stops.

@mbosnz

You raise a son to be a decent well mannered caring person and tell him you're proud of him but don't be upset that everyone else regards you as a potential thug.

Alternatively you raise a son to be a decent well mannered caring person and tell him you're proud of him, but sadly not all men are raised in such a way, and in order to protect themselves from assault, rape, and possibly murder, women who cannot tell which kind of guy you are at a glance, will quite possibly assume you are a potential risk, because they cannot afford to give you the benefit of the doubt. And it's okay to be upset about that, but don't direct that upset at women, direct it at the men whose behaviour means that this is the way women have to live their lives.

Exactly this

@mbosnz

You raise a son to be a decent well mannered caring person and tell him you're proud of him but don't be upset that everyone else regards you as a potential thug.

Alternatively you raise a son to be a decent well mannered caring person and tell him you're proud of him, but sadly not all men are raised in such a way, and in order to protect themselves from assault, rape, and possibly murder, women who cannot tell which kind of guy you are at a glance, will quite possibly assume you are a potential risk, because they cannot afford to give you the benefit of the doubt. And it's okay to be upset about that, but don't direct that upset at women, direct it at the men whose behaviour means that this is the way women have to live their lives.

Absolutely this. All day long - brilliant post

I agree with @mbosnz too, totally well put.

You raise a son to be a decent well mannered caring person and tell him you're proud of him but don't be upset that everyone else regards you as a potential thug.

Alternatively you raise a son to be a decent well mannered caring person and tell him you're proud of him, but sadly not all men are raised in such a way, and in order to protect themselves from assault, rape, and possibly murder, women who cannot tell which kind of guy you are at a glance, will quite possibly assume you are a potential risk, because they cannot afford to give you the benefit of the doubt. And it's okay to be upset about that, but don't direct that upset at women, direct it at the men whose behaviour means that this is the way women have to live their lives.

//// Great post. And actually, until this scourge that many bad men inflict on many women and other men is eradicated (heck, it's Friday, I'm feeling optimistic ) hows this for a trade off ....if I have to tell my daughter to walk tall, don't be scared because NAMALT despite what some scumbag is calling out to her from his white van, how about mums of sons who are up in arms teach your them some similar resilience and that it's not him and it's not personal ? Because if she has to put up with this, so should he.

I'm not optimistic actually. Probably the opposite .

@mbosnz

You raise a son to be a decent well mannered caring person and tell him you're proud of him but don't be upset that everyone else regards you as a potential thug.

Alternatively you raise a son to be a decent well mannered caring person and tell him you're proud of him, but sadly not all men are raised in such a way, and in order to protect themselves from assault, rape, and possibly murder, women who cannot tell which kind of guy you are at a glance, will quite possibly assume you are a potential risk, because they cannot afford to give you the benefit of the doubt. And it's okay to be upset about that, but don't direct that upset at women, direct it at the men whose behaviour means that this is the way women have to live their lives.

Aren't these two statements the same only one a bit more verbose?

At least we're having the conversation - and a lot of men are joining in. And some of them aren't saying #NAMALT.

No, the language is quite different. Thug v potential risk, for example. Explaining why this is so to your son, that it's not personal, and it's a matter of survival, potentially to a woman. And if he has negative feelings that this is the way it is, where to direct that anger, towards the creators of this reality, for women and for me.

OP I'm glad your husband listened to you and your daughter.

I think "not all men" can be compared to someone hearing a parent telling their kid "don't get in a car with a stranger" and yelling NOT ALL STRANGERS at them. Like yeah, we know this. We all know this. Should we fail to give this info to our children just because not all (in fact hardly any) strangers are potential kidnappers or paedophiles?

The irony is I bet as a police officer he has to give "just in case" type advice to people all the time - e.g. check ID before allowing anyone into your house, meet in a public place if you're going on an online date, keep your bag in sight in a bar. Does that mean the police are implying that ALL tradespeople/dates/socialisers are criminals?

@BigFatLiar no the inference is the opposite from your statement

Aren't these two statements the same only one a bit more verbose?

No. One centres a man feeling offended or prejudged, the other encourages that man to centre women feeling vulnerable or frightened.

[quote SpareBib]@BigFatLiar but you are still centring poor men and their sad feelings at feeling disempowered. That isn't the most important thing here.[/quote]
No, I don't think she is.

@HOkieCOkie

That’s his opinion, he’s allowed one. Maybe he’s felt unsafe at some point in his life. Honestly what a world we live in now where ppl aren’t allowed differing opinions and where men aren’t allowed to feel unsafe! Get over yourself and let your husband have his valid feelings. He may have expressed them in a clunky way and also he thought about what you said and changed his mind a bit.

Hey HokieCokie, it's not about him feeling unsafe too its about the fact that if he feels unsafe it's not because there are predatory women roaming the back streets but other men who might boff him on the head or similar. The point about the male curfew is that keeping men inside would eradicate a massive amount of street violence - not that it's all men or that men aren't scared too.

I recommend the podcast “today in focus “ episode of the 24th of March exactly on this topic open.spotify.com/episode/7KUyHzbvOwV8ujM3NRZeUc?si=7rgLjU0ASoWuMng6pGa95w

@Ifailed. There was a post upthread about how racism is pervasive and should be talked about, and I wholeheartedly agree. But your single line comment is one of the reasons it doesn’t get discussed in a reasoned and sensible way. To generalise that ALL white people are racist is, in itself a form of racism and shouldn’t be tolerated. If you’re a troll, then this comment has probably done it’s job in garnering a response. If not, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Im sorry but I think this 6pm curfew is rubbish if it was to be applied it should be for everyone although it's not heard of much but women kill men too I get that it's caused concern for people but not all men are the same. Your husband is right to get upset.