Nicola Sturgeon has done a number on the English left.

[derxa]

A white wash report. Misuse of public money. Shower of incompetents in SNP government. Rotten education. Using covid as a political tool.
I could weep for my country.
Yet people like James O'Brien continue to arse lick Nicola

@JokeTheCoalman exactly what you said it's a big he said she said fiasco

@Pumperthepumper

Just surprised that a party that claims to want to govern Scotland, hands power back to Westminster. It’s a perfectly valid point but just a little uncomfortable for you, hence the jibes I’m getting in return.

Except it’s not true - I promise you, nobody here wants to grovel to Boris Johnson. You seem to be over invested in a country that you have no involvement in, what does it matter to you?

I wasn’t aware I had to have a vested interest to discuss something? I thought these were discussion boards here for anyone to use. The responses I’m getting (ignore the facts, insult the person) are yet more proof the SNP is just an identity politics machine.

The SNP won’t use its full powers on income tax for fear of looking unpopular, so Westminster has had to bail them out. Quite embarrassing really.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/18/scottish-income-tax-941-million-short-forecast-westminster-bails/amp/

I wasn’t aware I had to have a vested interest to discuss something? I thought these were discussion boards here for anyone to use. The responses I’m getting (ignore the facts, insult the person) are yet more proof the SNP is just an identity politics machine.

The SNP won’t use its full powers on income tax for fear of looking unpopular, so Westminster has had to bail them out. Quite embarrassing really.

Except you’re the poster using words like ‘embarrassing’ and the whole thing about the ‘party political broadcast’ daily briefing updates.

Again: I don’t want independence. I don’t vote for SNP.

But I always find these little pockets of insular England really interesting. Are you worried you’d lose Wales too? Cornwall? Are you worried England would be made to look even more ridiculous on the world stage? Is it a pride thing?

Interesting to hear on the radio today that Nicola Sturgeon's 8 hours of questioning at the enquiry was longer than Tony Blair's for the Iraq War.

I salute her indefatigability!

Am sure Johnson and Patel will be up for 8 hours of questioning too...

Wondermule it’s one of the more charming aspects of Nationalism to be told you are ‘over invested ‘ if you’re not a Scot living in Scotland.
I’ve seen comments like this numerous times on these threads.

As a Scot who has lived in Scotland and England, I find these types of comments pretty appalling but, sadly not surprising given the amount of division the SNP stoke on a daily basis.

The recovery from Covid is going to be challenging for the vast majority of people throughout the UK regardless of their personal politics.
Yet more constitutional upheaval affects the whole of the UK.
Not just Scotland.

@Pumperthepumper

I wasn’t aware I had to have a vested interest to discuss something? I thought these were discussion boards here for anyone to use. The responses I’m getting (ignore the facts, insult the person) are yet more proof the SNP is just an identity politics machine.

The SNP won’t use its full powers on income tax for fear of looking unpopular, so Westminster has had to bail them out. Quite embarrassing really.

Except you’re the poster using words like ‘embarrassing’ and the whole thing about the ‘party political broadcast’ daily briefing updates.

Again: I don’t want independence. I don’t vote for SNP.

But I always find these little pockets of insular England really interesting. Are you worried you’d lose Wales too? Cornwall? Are you worried England would be made to look even more ridiculous on the world stage? Is it a pride thing?

Well I’ll answer your question, even though nobody is willing (or able) to answer mine.

I don’t think England is worried about the union breaking up, at least not on a personal day-to-day level. Because (not in an arsehole way) we don’t ‘need’ the other countries, in fact if they were businesses they’d be running at a loss. I don’t think we gain much financially from the union, I think it’s more that a break up would be incredibly messy and difficult to enforce (I mean just look at the Brexit mess! And we don’t even share a border/currency with them).

I think there’s every chance that an independent Scotland would sink, and England would be forced to bail it out or protect it in one way or another, particularly as the SNP seem determined to keep our currency (odd decision if they’re so adamant Scotland would be financially strong as an independent country).

So no, I don’t think it’s a pride thing, I don’t think most people care, I think they’re just a bit fatigued by the thought of yet another split. It’s a bit like a teenager yelling ‘I’m leaving home, you see if I don’t!’ And the parent rolling their eyes thinking, I would love you to but I’m only going to have to pick you up at 3am from whatever mess you’ve got yourself into.

@MuffinsandBrownies

Wondermule it’s one of the more charming aspects of Nationalism to be told you are ‘over invested ‘ if you’re not a Scot living in Scotland. I’ve seen comments like this numerous times on these threads.

As a Scot who has lived in Scotland and England, I find these types of comments pretty appalling but, sadly not surprising given the amount of division the SNP stoke on a daily basis.

The recovery from Covid is going to be challenging for the vast majority of people throughout the UK regardless of their personal politics.
Yet more constitutional upheaval affects the whole of the UK.
Not just Scotland.

Thanks. It doesn’t bother me at all, it’s just deflection tactics. I don’t take it personally.

There would have been no requirement for Sturgeon to appear for 8 hours in front of the committee if the govt over which she presides hadn’t made such a monumental cock up of the whole sorry saga.

@MuffinsandBrownies

Wondermule it’s one of the more charming aspects of Nationalism to be told you are ‘over invested ‘ if you’re not a Scot living in Scotland. I’ve seen comments like this numerous times on these threads.

As a Scot who has lived in Scotland and England, I find these types of comments pretty appalling but, sadly not surprising given the amount of division the SNP stoke on a daily basis.

The recovery from Covid is going to be challenging for the vast majority of people throughout the UK regardless of their personal politics.
Yet more constitutional upheaval affects the whole of the UK.
Not just Scotland.

Is this aimed at me? Once again: not an SNP voter. Anti-independence.

But very curious about these pockets of England who think Scottish governance is somehow an insult to England: like Scotland should be grateful, and know their place and not step over the line. So a popular Scottish politician who (heaven forbid!) shows how small and pathetic Westminster has become is somehow a fault of Scotland rather than England.

So no, I don’t think it’s a pride thing, I don’t think most people care, I think they’re just a bit fatigued by the thought of yet another split. It’s a bit like a teenager yelling ‘I’m leaving home, you see if I don’t!’ And the parent rolling their eyes thinking, I would love you to but I’m only going to have to pick you up at 3am from whatever mess you’ve got yourself into.

So, ingratitude? That’s the bottom line?

@Wondermule. Your superiority complex shines through your last post. You obviously feel Scotland should be grateful England is holding it together. And it should never question Englands dominance. Its a pity we can't get you up here. You'd do more for independence than most of the SNP...similar to when Johnson comes up for a visit..

@Pumperthepumper

So no, I don’t think it’s a pride thing, I don’t think most people care, I think they’re just a bit fatigued by the thought of yet another split. It’s a bit like a teenager yelling ‘I’m leaving home, you see if I don’t!’ And the parent rolling their eyes thinking, I would love you to but I’m only going to have to pick you up at 3am from whatever mess you’ve got yourself into.

So, ingratitude? That’s the bottom line?

No. Massive projection on your part.

[quote ssd]@Wondermule. Your superiority complex shines through your last post. You obviously feel Scotland should be grateful England is holding it together. And it should never question Englands dominance. Its a pity we can't get you up here. You'd do more for independence than most of the SNP...similar to when Johnson comes up for a visit..[/quote]
Every post you do like this, where you are so utterly unable to defend the SNP on their multiple and serious failings, and deflect by taking offence at comments I haven’t even made, discredits you.

No. Massive projection on your part.

So what’s the scenario where England is the parent and Scotland is the annoying, troublesome teen?

Of course it’s ingratitude - and honestly, this attitude does many more favours for independence than unionism. I cannot tell you how difficult it is to be pro-union when we have to deal with this garbage attitude.

@MuffinsandBrownies

There would have been no requirement for Sturgeon to appear for 8 hours in front of the committee if the govt over which she presides hadn’t made such a monumental cock up of the whole sorry saga.

And yet Tony Blair was questioned less for a war. Hmmm

Why should I defend the snp? I didn't say they were wonderful and never make mistakes. I vote for them as I want independence. Once we have it I'd love to see a strong Labour government in power. I did post this at 18:17 ..

But you don't want to hear that, do you? You want a fight with someone defending the snp, so you can undermine them.

What I don't understand in these threads is posters who obviously feel superior to Scotland but don't support the party who wants independence? Its like you have no respect for us but don't want to let us go?

@Pumperthepumper

No. Massive projection on your part.

So what’s the scenario where England is the parent and Scotland is the annoying, troublesome teen?

Of course it’s ingratitude - and honestly, this attitude does many more favours for independence than unionism. I cannot tell you how difficult it is to be pro-union when we have to deal with this garbage attitude.

Well, Scotland gets all the perks of being in the union with very few downsides.

Free prescriptions, free university fees. The SNP also asked Westminster to bail out Scottish universities recently, as they plunged into a financial black hole. It seems the modus operandi of the SNP is to do whatever makes them look popular, even if financially unviable, before going cap in hand to Westminster when it goes belly up. Oh and they still take the credit afterwards.

Have a little think for a moment. If the roles were reversed, what would you think?

Can I ask, what does England get out of the union? Because we have as much right to promote our own interests as much as you do.

I suspect there were many threads about Tony Blair at the time.
That’s not the premise of this thread.

We don’t have to reverse the roles, as I said above - nobody in Scotland wants to grovel to Boris Johnson for anything. Devolved fiscal powers are the way forward for everyone without a full independence.

Are you a fan of English independence? I hear that’s a growing movement down your end.

@Pumperthepumper

We don’t have to reverse the roles, as I said above - nobody in Scotland wants to grovel to Boris Johnson for anything. Devolved fiscal powers are the way forward for everyone without a full independence.

Are you a fan of English independence? I hear that’s a growing movement down your end.

Well the SNP have been grovelling, so it is surprising they have so much support.

I have never heard anyone mention English independent. I genuinely don’t think English people have nationalistic neuroses - I think people confuse the power mad nature of Westminster for patriotism.

Would I want it? Probably not, if I’m honest. Brexit (which I don’t want) has shown me how messy and needless these splits are, and how better co-operation is the way forwards.

Scotland controls all of its own internal affairs, I can’t really see what powers it would gain from independence that would make any difference to day-to-day life.

I live in SW England, which is basically the forgotten realm. You hear a lot about the North (pleading poverty, usually) and the South East (because of London), and sometimes the midlands. But the part I live in is basically the land Westminster forgot - I think it would be fair to say we have been even more shafted by Westminster than Scotland has. We have all the downsides of paying for prescriptions and university fees, with only a bunch of useless MPs to represent us. In fact we are so disregarded here I remember we were missed off the screen entirely during one of the covid news updates. We have the lowest incomes in the country and one of the highest average house prices, which I bet is a surprise to you because you probably assumed it was the North (like everyone does).

So please don’t assume I’m a patriotic English person who has zero concept of why you feel the way you do against the Tories and Westminster as an institution, I feel just the same.

@Wondermule that was just for you 😘😘🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

I think there’s every chance that an independent Scotland would sink, and England would be forced to bail it out or protect it in one way or another, particularly as the SNP seem determined to keep our currency (odd decision if they’re so adamant Scotland would be financially strong as an independent country).

Well firstly it's not your (as in England's) currency. It's the United Kingdoms, you know that supposedly "equal" Union of 4 nations?

Secondly here's just some of the resources scotland has and why England are so desperate to keep us firmly under their boot.

96% of UK's oil reserves
63% of UK's natural gas reserves
35% of UK's arable land
40% of UK's forests
60% of UK's timber production
25% of EUROPE'S offshore energy capactity
95% of UK's freshwater reserves
33% of UK's landmass
70% of UK's fishing catch
60% of UK(which are about 4 times as valuable as anywhere else).

I live in SW England, which is basically the forgotten realm. You hear a lot about the North (pleading poverty, usually) and the South East (because of London), and sometimes the midlands. But the part I live in is basically the land Westminster forgot - I think it would be fair to say we have been even more shafted by Westminster than Scotland has. We have all the downsides of paying for prescriptions and university fees, with only a bunch of useless MPs to represent us. In fact we are so disregarded here I remember we were missed off the screen entirely during one of the covid news updates. We have the lowest incomes in the country and one of the highest average house prices, which I bet is a surprise to you because you probably assumed it was the North (like everyone does).

Oh you should definitely look into English independence then. You’re lucky too in that nobody will call you embarrassing for wanting change.