Inheritance issues causing a massive tension in the family.

[ThornAmongstRoses]

My DH and his sister have no relationship with each other. It’s not that they actively dislike each other, it’s more that there’s just nothing there, just total indifference. They may see each other yearly at a family get together or something but there’s no contact in between those times, not even a text message here and there.

My FIL lives relatively close to us so is very involved in our lives (no problem at all, he’s a lovely man) and since he lost his wife (DH’s mum) just over 4 years ago we’ve taken him even more into our fold to ensure he doesn’t get lonely.

We live near the Midlands and DH’s sister and family live near Skegness. His sister comes down about once a year to see her dad and will stay for about a week with her partner and their children. FIL doesn’t go and stay with them though as with their two young children, and the fact the house is quite small, there’s isn’t really any room to accommodate FIL for any period of time.

Anyway, FIL has always said that when he passes away he would want his property sold and split 50:50 between DH and SIL.

However, last week he dropped a bombshell that he’s sold his house and is moving up to Skegness and will be having a Granny Annexe type Cabin built in SIL’s garden for him to live in.

We have seen the brochure for the Cabins and they are beautiful and cost about £100k to £130k depending on size and style.

We asked how on earth he would fit one in SIL’s garden as they only have a small garden and FIL told us that SIL is going to sell her house, and then he (FIL) is going to give SIL £90k from the sale of his own house and his contribution will allow for a mortgage big enough to her to buy a larger house with a big enough garden for his Cabin to be built in.

FIL’s house has already been sold for £250k and has said he will give £25k to my DH. The remainder will be used to give £90k to SIL (so she can buy a bigger house) and then the cost of building the Cabin.

SIL is waiting to start a new job which will enable them to pay the increased mortgage payments on whichever house they buy, compared to the payments they have for their current house.

My DH is quite upset as not only is SIL being given £90k, she will then also have a much larger house to show for it, and after FIL’s passing, a nice £120k accommodation in the back garden which will no doubt add a lot of value to her property.

DH is more upset as the 50% inheritance that was earmarked for him was mainly going to be for our children as we were going to put it into a university fund for them to use when they’re older.

FIL has also asked if he can come and live with us whilst everything “at the other end” gets sorted, which we have already said yes to.

FIL has got to leave his house at the end of April and has told us he’ll probably only be with us for a few months, but SIL hasn’t even started looking for a house yet, never mind the two months it takes to build the Cabin when the house has been bought.

It’s all such a mess.

There’s underlying tension brewing and I’m worried it’s going to cause a huge fracture in DH’s and FIL’s relationship and also that DH’s and SIL’s relationship will go from one of apathy to one of rivalry.

Are inheritance discrepancies a typical cause of family feuds? Is DH right to be feeling a bit irked by it?

Rather than the £125k that was supposed to be his fair share, he’s now getting £25k out of the whole £250k and everything else, in effect, is going to SIL.

Your DH should be honest and speak his mind to his father RE unequal inheritance from his house.

If one of my daughters 'spoke their mind' about an inheritance while I'm 65, the conversation about the important things here would be entirely derailed by my "WTF?" and the anger to go with it.

Yes, DH should be open about your concerns about this plan, whiich are very real, but the i word shouldn't be mentioned unless FIL brings it up first.

"Dad, BIL won't allow you to stay in their house for the interim period. How do you think he's going to be with you when you're living in his garden for decades? And how will you feel if he continues to be as abrupt and unfriendly with you as he is at the moment? We love you and we really don't want you to end up unhappy and feeling unwelcome there"

It really seems like you and your husband have absolutely 'earned' the right to get involved in this one, to state your concerns and robustly so and yes, to tell him how hurt you are that he didn't even discuss it with you. In the last 4 years in particular it sounds as if you have had a really strong and mutually supportive relationship and you have made huge efforts to include him in family life. (I would love to have a DIL like you some day!). It's very shabby of him to be so careless of your feelings, we've focused a lot on the daughter here and her possibly Machiavellian ways but really the FIL hasnt and isnt covering himself in glory either.

Yes I have an inheritance dispute of my own (you can probably find it if you search my name) I agree it's very hurtful but it seems as if it is your fils choice so not much you can do unfortunately and at least he will be happy in his last years

@ThornAmongstRoses

Surely he would be better buying a place in a retirement village with care facilities he could draw on if the need arose.

He mentioned something very similar to this about 18 months ago when he was musing over his future, so when he told me and DH that he had sold his house (before telling us about the plan with SIL) we assumed he was planning into moving to one of those type of accommodations.

I asked DH why once the new house has been bought, why wouldn’t FIL go and live down there with the family whilst waiting for the Cabin to be built, but although we can’t know for definite, I imagine it’s because SIL’s partner (they aren’t married) wouldn’t want him there. FIL is only allowed to ‘move in’ once the Cabin is ready.

Another point.

Is this SiL way of getting her hands on her own home?

If this goes ahead, she must be on the deeds or her partner could potentially screw everyone over.

If SIL is going to buy a bigger house why can’t he stay there? Ask him that point blank.
Money aside ... it seems out of character for him to have done this

@saraclara

Your DH should be honest and speak his mind to his father RE unequal inheritance from his house.

If one of my daughters 'spoke their mind' about an inheritance while I'm 65, the conversation about the important things here would be entirely derailed by my "WTF?" and the anger to go with it.

Yes, DH should be open about your concerns about this plan, whiich are very real, but the i word shouldn't be mentioned unless FIL brings it up first.

Not when the FiL has already discussed this in the past.

He opened the door. It's not the OP's husband bringing it up out of nowhere

This sounds very odd op. You’re describing a mercenary woman and a man who hates his father in law. Yet your father in law is a fully capable man, he’s neither old, frail or loosing his ability levels. He’s in a much better position to make these decisions than you. Not least because he’s in full control of the facts. You know very little. Only what you’re told

It would seem to me you’ve got something wrong. For someone who has no relationship at all with these people. You seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions about them. Stuff you can’t possibly know. Clearly the relationship between him and his daughter and their family is much much stronger than you’re thinking.

I really think you need to pull back from this thought process that you’re nurturing that she’s effectively trying to rob him and tread very carefully. Very carefully, as the path you’re starting to articulate could cause irreparable damage, and quite honestly you can kiss goodbye to the 25 k too.

I’d strongly urge caution, as if you and your husbands real feelings are revealed I think it’s going to cause a lot of damage, primarily to you both.

I don’t see as much of my Mum as my sibling as I live further away. If she decided to move here instead for her remaining years that absolutely would be in no way because I wanted to fuck her over for money!

We’ve got OPs account of SILs relationship with FIL. Two sides to every story...

Cheer up OP if the lounge of the cabin has a sofa bed and he has a spare room it means nice seaside visits where your children get to see their cousins.

@ThornAmongstRoses

Unless he thinks that they'll all be living as one big happy family & he'll spend most of his time with them?

I think he knows that’s not the case. Both SIL and her partner work full time so FIL will spend a lot of time on his own. Plus I Know he won’t feel comfortable being around SIL’s partner for any long period of time.

The style of the Cabin he’s looking at has a living room, a dining room, a kitchen, a double bedroom, a twin bedroom and a bathroom. So I imagine he’s buying it with the idea that he will spend a lot of time in it.

What sticks out for me here is that a cabin that big will need planning permission and associated costs and that isn’t easy to whack what is essentially a house onto the land of another house in what is likely to be in a town.

Unless they’re looking for a country side area with lots of land and even then it would be tricky.

I would also be concerned HOW they get planning permission. If they get it as a holiday let type things then it’s unlikely FIL would be able to live in it all year. So effectively he’d be homeless for X number of months per year.

If the planning office saw it as an additional home and the only way they’d give planning permission then it may cost even more to parcel off the land, provide its own access, put in electrical and plumbing correctly etc etc and would be liable for council tax.
If that was the case and it could be sold would your DH get a part of that sale as inheritance or would SIL expect all of it to go back into her ownership?

There’s a LOT more to consider here than I can think of off the top of my head as it’s been a long long time since I worked in this area.

Basically there is NO guarantee he will get his cabin as so so much can go wrong. In fact I’d be very firm and insist he consider all the cons of this and not put another penny down until there’s a property available with potential for planning permission, SIL has her job promotion and is secure in it and that a part of SIL house value is ringfenced eg it will be remortgaged to share inheritance fairly. grandparents have done similar where their deposit was protected when sharing a house with aunt - seriously look into this so at least he can get his money back!

@Ilovechinese

Yes I have an inheritance dispute of my own (you can probably find it if you search my name) I agree it's very hurtful but it seems as if it is your fils choice so not much you can do unfortunately and at least he will be happy in his last years

But there is a very good chance he won't be happy in 'his last few years'! Which could be as few as 30 🙄. I think if the OP and her husband thought the FIL were genuinely going to a household as comparably loving and supportive as their own, they might be hurt and a bit annoyed at FIL having gone back on his word but they'd wish him well. This scenario is potentially the worst of all possible worlds - their father gets financially screwed, they get no inheritance and oh yeah, they get to pick up the pieces. Yipee! Who would be happy with that? I don't know has anyone else mentioned it, but I wonder how the OPs MIL would feel about what was her home too effectively just going to one of her children?

@ThornAmongstRoses

Also, why wouldn't he move in with his daughter as soon as she buys the bigger house to supervise the building of his cabin?

Because SIL’s partner wouldn’t allow it.

Has your who has told you this?

Because surely if it's your FIL you would ask him why he's planning to live in their garden?

Why is he expecting you all to squeeze in when things are so bad with his sister's partner that he can't even live in their big enough house for a couple of months whilst his cabin is built?

In fact I’d be very firm and insist he consider all the cons of this and not put another penny down until there’s a property available with potential for planning permission, SIL has her job promotion and is secure in it and that a part of SIL house value is ringfenced eg it will be remortgaged to share inheritance fairly.

What a ridiculous statement. You’d be in no position to insist anything.

I think your husband is getting the better end of the deal. If it's £25k and being absolved of caring duties. I would want to make sure that the sister will care for him properly though. Rather than just take his money and not care for him. Will your husband's father have any right to the property while still alive? Is your husband prepared to look after his dad as he gets older? If your husband expresses annoyance, his dad as every right to say OK, build an annex to your house and take care of me as I get older.

Who would be happy with that? I don't know has anyone else mentioned it, but I wonder how the OPs MIL would feel about what was her home too effectively just going to one of her children?

She’d probably feel quite sad. MIL and her SIL always had quite a strained relationship due to the way SIL’s partner treated MIL and FIL. It was an ongoing issue and always caused an undercurrent of upset.

I'd have been more annoyed that he and his daughter have done this all behind his sons back, going as far as already selling the house, then expecting his son to be the one to step in and give him a place to live for potentially months on end, before he swans off to live with his daughter, rather than being annoyed at the loss of any potential future inheritance.

If I had to guess, I reckon he'll be in your house a minimum 12 -18 months.

This all sounds very suspect and I think you need to have a long sit down with your FIL and have a frank impartial conversation with him, pointing out some important things that have been mentioned in here and ask some serious questions. You not wanting to upset him isn't going to help anyone in the long run, except maybe his daughter, you, your husband and his father will bear the brunt of any problems that arise from this situation all through pussyfooting around, not wanting to upset or rock the boat.

In an ideal world, he should either buy his own property close to his daughter, or he should be buying a big enough house as tenants-in-common with his daughter and partner, but even then talks about future care needs, and relationship breakdowns need to be discussed and confirmed with legal advice. Not just; giving over a large amount of money to part fund a house, and hoping planning permission is granted to allow an expensive lodge in the garden, without having his name on anything by the sounds of it.

Also, how magnanimous of him to not want to rent elsewhere because that would be wasting his money, presumably he wants to stay with you for free until this mythical lodge is built, so in a way, you'll be the ones helping pay towards your sister in laws mortgage as well as him.

The fact that he isn't even allowed to move into the new house until this lodge is built in the garden is a massive red flag. He'll spend all his time isolated in that lodge, essentially banished from the house he's paid towards, will probably only be allowed in when child care needs are required.

I think your husband is getting the better end of the deal. If it's £25k and being absolved of caring duties.

We have told FIL that we aren’t going to accept his money. An inheritance is one thing but whilst all this mess is going on it wouldn’t be right to take money off him.

@Alsohuman

In fact I’d be very firm and insist he consider all the cons of this and not put another penny down until there’s a property available with potential for planning permission, SIL has her job promotion and is secure in it and that a part of SIL house value is ringfenced eg it will be remortgaged to share inheritance fairly.

What a ridiculous statement. You’d be in no position to insist anything.

Not at all ridiculous.

I wish I had been firmer with my own grandparents.

They sold their hone to move in with their daughter. They put £100k into the new house as a deposit.

Daughter had two adult children living at home who subsequently moved in their boyfriends and got pregnant and the daughter made life very difficult for grandparents to remain living there as it was overcrowded and daughter wouldn’t move out her adult children out.

4 generations living in a 3 bed, 2 lounge home.

Grandparents lost their 100k and are now in an absolute state having to claim housing benefit whilst aunt now lives in a house she can’t afford and has an order on the house that creditors are paid before anyone else. Thankfully I believe my grandparents will get their money back but the daughter is refusing to sell the house as it’ll make ‘3 families homeless’ but no care to making grandparents homeless.

So again, not ridiculous at all when you’ve lived this and had to pick up the pieces of a fucked op family decision because people were too scared to voice concerns and insist things are looked at properly.

Ignoring the, what appears to be, inevitable collapse of this agreement is ridiculous.

I think this sounds like a disaster waiting to happen quite apart from the unfairness of this both in not communicating with your DH whilst assuming he will accommodate his DF while his DS and her family move to a bigger house and may or may not build a cabin in their garden for him. I am in my 60s and whilst not widowed I don't think I could treat my children unequally and I everyone I know who has lived with their parents in their old age has gone wrong. Usually people underestimate how much help an elderly person will need in their later years and if your FIL does not get on with your SILs partner and does not see them often I wonder how that will work.

Given you have been so welcoming to him over the last few years I think it is quite unfair of your FIL to make these plans without discussion especially if he is planning to go and live with SIL but expecting you to put him up for an indeterminate period of time. What is to stop them changing their mind once they have their hands on his money? What is his protection if they split up? I think quite honestly he is mad to give the bulk of his money to his DD who he rarely sees and move many miles away and live essentially in a shed in her garden. Doesn't it need planning permission? What services will he have in it?

Whilst no one has the right to expect an inheritance the very fact he is selling his house and splitting it unevenly is unfair and you cannot help but think the reason for him not discussing it is because he knows how it will look to your DH.

He'll spend all his time isolated in that lodge, essentially banished from the house he's paid towards, will probably only be allowed in when child care needs are required.

I can’t bear it

@ThornAmongstRoses

Who would be happy with that? I don't know has anyone else mentioned it, but I wonder how the OPs MIL would feel about what was her home too effectively just going to one of her children?

She’d probably feel quite sad. MIL and her SIL always had quite a strained relationship due to the way SIL’s partner treated MIL and FIL. It was an ongoing issue and always caused an undercurrent of upset.

That makes it even sadder, it sounds as if the FIL is going against what he probably knows his late wife would have wanted (at the very least, fairness) AND alienating the people who have been there for him. I think you are being very kind and restrained actually, I think he is behaving very shabbily to be honest

This has the potential to be disastrous for your FIL. is living near the sea really worth moving away from the place he has lived for years, where presumably he has friends as well as family who are engaged with him, to live in a cabin in a garden part owned by a man who doesn't like you much? Has he thought this through? What would happen if SIl and her husband divorce and the house has to be sold? What would happen if SIL and her family decide they need to move for work? A friend of my mother sold her house, paid for a granny flat to be put on to her daughter's house and then her daughter's husband left her and wanted to force a sale of the house. it was a nightmare.

And I wonder whether it will actually happen? Has he already handed over the 90k? My guess is it will be a long long time before that cabin is put into the garden - if ever. And by then sure he'll be settled with you and Sil will think it better not to disturb him.

You need to sit down and talk to him about him living with you. this isn't fair on you or your children and dh. FIL is making quick and ill-thought out decisions and you will be the ones most affected by it.

@ThornAmongstRoses

I really feel for you all in this situation (SIL not so much).

Family dynamics, especially around money are hideous, and sudden changes from a long held narrative that suddenly favour one party over another like this are concerning and confusing. The emotional aspect of this proposed arrangement is one thing, but it is the practicality and what is in your FIL's best interests that should be focused on regardless, and it's clear you are trying to navigate both, hence "processing" your thoughts and feelings on this thread.

I echo the need for your FIL to take good legal advice, and I would seek it from a solicitor that specialises in the field of older people's finances - they do indeed exist. There are ways to build in protection for your FIL if he wants to go ahead, but they need to be very specific and watertight.

From bitter personal experience, I can confirm what others have said regarding care costs - it has taken us 3 years to sort out an accusation of deliberate deprivation of assets aimed at myself and my DP regarding my MIL after she had to move into residential care with, after 18 months, very fast deteriorating dementia to the point we could no longer keep her safe for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.; we were both POA. We cared for her at our home for 18 months and due to stress and trying to stay employed / run a business and never having had to handle any amount of money before we handled things way too informally. Our intent was never malicious, but it's the numbers the Local Authority are interested in, and the amount involved was nowhere near the figures you have mentioned.

There is no limit to how far back the LA can go to decide whether money has been "squandered" and it hinges on whether someone should have taken into account a "reasonable expectation" of need of future care.

LAs are encouraged to go hard and fast in these situations to minimise strain on their resources, and for POAs in particular there is a real threat of criminal proceedings due to safeguarding.

Dementia in particular can happen staggeringly fast - MIL went from independent living in another county in her mid 60s, to full time residential care in her early 70s. I apologise if I'm coming across as a drama queen, but we were hopelessly out of our depth, though we did our best. And the emotional toll can never be predicted. Your SIL really has to take this into account in all the plans being made, plus she will have to hold all financial transactions made with FILs money up to high scrutiny.

This is just one thing that should be taken into account - other than that, I have no expertise in money, in fact I hate it because it's all so complicated and leads to conflict.

So, try and talk to FIL, try and get him to engage a reputable, properly qualified solicitor, and distasteful though it feels try and talk about his future health and well-being, even if he does appear hale and hearty right now.

It's a hideous, complex situation for all involved, and your FIL has capacity and can do what he wants with his money. But a plan like this, with the secrecy involved and with siblings divided is an ongoing recipe for disaster.

I wish you and yours well for the future and hope for as easy a resolution to it all as possible.

You’re completely missing the point @EveningOverRooftops. You can’t “insist” or “be firm” with adults with full capacity if they don’t do what you think they should. If you think you can, you’re in for a life time of disappointment.

£25k is a lot to put towards university fees. Your family won't be looking after FIL in his old age. The £250k never existed. Every penny could have gone on care home fees and inheritance tax.
Enjoy spending the £25k on your DC and support your FIL in his decision. He sounds switched on.