Inheritance issues causing a massive tension in the family.

[ThornAmongstRoses]

My DH and his sister have no relationship with each other. It’s not that they actively dislike each other, it’s more that there’s just nothing there, just total indifference. They may see each other yearly at a family get together or something but there’s no contact in between those times, not even a text message here and there.

My FIL lives relatively close to us so is very involved in our lives (no problem at all, he’s a lovely man) and since he lost his wife (DH’s mum) just over 4 years ago we’ve taken him even more into our fold to ensure he doesn’t get lonely.

We live near the Midlands and DH’s sister and family live near Skegness. His sister comes down about once a year to see her dad and will stay for about a week with her partner and their children. FIL doesn’t go and stay with them though as with their two young children, and the fact the house is quite small, there’s isn’t really any room to accommodate FIL for any period of time.

Anyway, FIL has always said that when he passes away he would want his property sold and split 50:50 between DH and SIL.

However, last week he dropped a bombshell that he’s sold his house and is moving up to Skegness and will be having a Granny Annexe type Cabin built in SIL’s garden for him to live in.

We have seen the brochure for the Cabins and they are beautiful and cost about £100k to £130k depending on size and style.

We asked how on earth he would fit one in SIL’s garden as they only have a small garden and FIL told us that SIL is going to sell her house, and then he (FIL) is going to give SIL £90k from the sale of his own house and his contribution will allow for a mortgage big enough to her to buy a larger house with a big enough garden for his Cabin to be built in.

FIL’s house has already been sold for £250k and has said he will give £25k to my DH. The remainder will be used to give £90k to SIL (so she can buy a bigger house) and then the cost of building the Cabin.

SIL is waiting to start a new job which will enable them to pay the increased mortgage payments on whichever house they buy, compared to the payments they have for their current house.

My DH is quite upset as not only is SIL being given £90k, she will then also have a much larger house to show for it, and after FIL’s passing, a nice £120k accommodation in the back garden which will no doubt add a lot of value to her property.

DH is more upset as the 50% inheritance that was earmarked for him was mainly going to be for our children as we were going to put it into a university fund for them to use when they’re older.

FIL has also asked if he can come and live with us whilst everything “at the other end” gets sorted, which we have already said yes to.

FIL has got to leave his house at the end of April and has told us he’ll probably only be with us for a few months, but SIL hasn’t even started looking for a house yet, never mind the two months it takes to build the Cabin when the house has been bought.

It’s all such a mess.

There’s underlying tension brewing and I’m worried it’s going to cause a huge fracture in DH’s and FIL’s relationship and also that DH’s and SIL’s relationship will go from one of apathy to one of rivalry.

Are inheritance discrepancies a typical cause of family feuds? Is DH right to be feeling a bit irked by it?

Rather than the £125k that was supposed to be his fair share, he’s now getting £25k out of the whole £250k and everything else, in effect, is going to SIL.

Hi OP
I've skimmed the thread and the gist of what is proposed worries the heck out of me. Your FiL is 65 - he could have many many years ahead of him and he is proposing living in a cabin in your SIL garden? They will get utterly fed up of each other and I suspect if / when your FIL might need help / support she won't want to do it. Worst case scenario is that it all falls apart or doesn't happen and your FiL no longer has a home, or an asset to sell.

If he is giving SiL £90K he does need to consult a solictor - there are all sort of rules about giving cash gifts. Likewise if they are going to take out a joint mortgage, he will need legal advice. If the assumption is that SiL will take the money and then sort everything out - again I would recommend legal advice.

Sounds like a hare-brained, ill thought out scheme to me where all the risk is shouldered by your FiL. I think you have to try and protect him but be prepared to be told to mind your own business.
And apologies if I've misunderstood anything in your posts

@dontdisturbmenow

Your fil is being scammed by his own daughter Do you know her?

You don't need to know a scammer personally to know they are one. Do you believe the emails you get saying you're related to a Prince in a foreign land and you've inherited all of his money? Nope. But you know they are a scammer.

The whole thing is dodgy as fuck, and the fil is already out several thousands of pounds due to selling his house cheap. He's also about to lose 90k.

You can believe she is genuine if you want, and that family wouldn't ever scam family. But sadly I've seen the reality far too often and know how shit some people can be. I have zero expectations of people anymore.

This is such a mess...
TBH OP if you and your DH have a good relationship with your FIL I would simply tell him that you are upset that all this was decided 'behind your backs' and it feels like a kick in the teeth to now be asked to have him live with you temporarily.
Also say that you are worried as the plan doesn't seem that well thought about:

• what happens if SIL and BIL divorce and the house has to be sold so they each get a share: how much does FIL receive?
• what happens if SIL/BIL decide they don't like the arrangement anymore? How much money does FIL get back?
• has SIL agreed to care for him if/when needed? even if it means giving up her job?
• what if FIL needs to go into a care home (or even just a carer at home), has SIL agreed to pay the fees or will he have to rely on council help? Make him realize that council help won't buy the same standard he could buy himself.

... then depending on your relation ship with him you can discuss the fact that BIL is not very welcoming so does FIL realize he might not be welcome to spend time in the 'main house' except for childcare and the odd dinner.

@EggysMom

From what I've read, FIL moves in with you. He gifts £90k to SIL to buy a bigger house. He puts £120k in an account for her to buy a cabin. Then he continues to live with you until the mythical cabin is built...

She gets a bigger house, never builds the cabin, and FIL lives with you forever.

I wouldn't do it!!! If their family is so honest and open that he already discussed the will / inheritance with his children, why cannot the openness continue with your DH saying "Look it won't work because..."

This is more or less what happened to my granny when I was a teenager. Aunt and uncle (dad's brother) invited to granny to live with them when she was widowed. They said they'd add an extension so she'd have her own bathroom and large bedroom/lounge.

Granny came to live with us whilst extension was being done, to avoid the building chaos. She was meant to stay about 6 months.

3 years later and aunt and uncle still had even got planning permission. It was one thing after another and eventually granny had to go into a care home due to dementia. She'd been with us for 5 years at that point. After her death the extension was finally finished.

@Bythemillpond

diddl

That 1m won't last long at that rate

A good 10yrs

Dmil went into a care home with dementia in her early 90s. The doctors have said she will more than likely reach 100. Her brain is slowly going but there is nothing wrong with her body. It is £8k per month. (No idea where these £1k per month care homes are) 8k x 12 months x 8 years = £768,000

The money will run out before she does and then who knows where the money will come from.

I was referring to this post from confusedandshaken

"Wise words. When FIL died MIL had assets of about £1m. She is now in a care home that costs about seventy thousand a year. It's not even a posh care home. It's very nice but far from the grandest in our area. That 1m won't last long at that rate."

Of course it depends on age/prognosis but to have 10yrs money available is pretty good imo.

My uncle had a beautiful cabin built in his garden and he moved out of his house into the garden cabin and he gave DS and his wife the house. After three years they split up and the house (including the cabin in the garden) was sold and proceeds divided between son and DIL .

My uncle is now homeless.

Get your FIL to get good legal advice before doing anything else.

Thanks everyone for to your thoughts, I can’t actively reply as I was earlier as my eldest is now back from school and is wanting my attention.

But I’m still reading your replies and learning from them all in terms of what we need to discuss with FIL, so thank you.

I had my BIL living with me while his DP bought a house- it ended in a huge bust up ! Basically, your FIL will be living with you for years- and it is maddening not being able watch TV, have a bath, even make a cup of tea when you want without another person shadowing you!
You'll be throwing him out on his ear and be glad to see him go, so you can forget about an inheritance!

Okay - three things
a) he's 65. Talking about inheritance is ridiculous. I'm 65 and it doesn't even occur to me that my daughters would be planning on how to spend my money when I'm gone.
b) no inheritance here from either my parents or my inlaws. Every penny has gone on care. All their savings and the proceeds of their houses.
c) this whole thing needs a long and open conversation with your FIL. Not an accusatory one, not a critical one, just a 'how do you see this working?' one. Asking questions like 'how do you think you'll get onliving in such close proximity to BIL?' and 'what sort of social life do you think you'll have?' etc etc
And yes, I think it's okay to say that you're sad that he kept this from you for so long, and to ask why he wasn't honest with you when he asked if he could stay with you. If you say it in the right tone of voice it shouldn't be too difficult.

To be honest, I think 65 is way too young to be living in a cabin in one's offspring's garden. If he wants to live on the coast, why not just in a small place near to them, so he has some privacy? At 75 this might make sense, but speaking as his peer in age, this seems such an old person thing to do.

EggysMom

From what I've read, FIL moves in with you. He gifts £90k to SIL to buy a bigger house. He puts £120k in an account for her to buy a cabin. Then he continues to live with you until the mythical cabin is built...

She gets a bigger house, never builds the cabin, and FIL lives with you forever.

I wouldn't do it!!! If their family is so honest and open that he already discussed the will / inheritance with his children, why cannot the openness continue with your DH saying "Look it won't work because..."

Exactly! You will want to kill your FIL after a few endless months and years have passed! Don't be a mug!

@Camphillgirl

My uncle had a beautiful cabin built in his garden and he moved out of his house into the garden cabin and he gave DS and his wife the house. After three years they split up and the house (including the cabin in the garden) was sold and proceeds divided between son and DIL .

My uncle is now homeless.

Get your FIL to get good legal advice before doing anything else.

Another example to mention to FIL.

There are SO many ways that this could go wrong. Does he have a good friend that you can talk to? Someone outside the family who might bring these things up with him, if he won't get legal advice?

Basically, your FIL will be living with you for years- and it is maddening not being able watch TV, have a bath, even make a cup of tea when you want without another person shadowing you!

I won’t lie - I am worried how I’m going to cope with no time to myself. Like I said, I really like FIL, but I know I’m going to struggle with him being here all the time. No more lazing around in pyjamas and eating chocolate days for me I guess

Your FIL needs legal advice and a legal agreement giving him a percentage of ownership in his daughter's new home and/or a life interest in living there. And care needs to be spelled out, as in the obligations of the daughter to provide and/or arrange for care of her father. And what happens if she fails to follow through.

I'd be worried they'll take the money and then not look after him. Good luck getting that back if it happens if there's no legal agreement in place.

I think your mistake here OP is "earmarking" somebody's wealth for yourself when they are still alive.
That's cold and expedient. A bit creepy tbh.

Your other mistake is ignoring your FIL's needs. And being very presumptuous about how he deals with his own assets.
If he had to go into care in later life, he'd need to sell his property to fund it. Have you any clue of the cost of this, versus the cost and comfort of having the annexe built and spending his days there?
Have you any clue of the hours of care that SIL will need to put in when he becomes elderly?
I haven't read the whole thread, sorry. But I'm pretty sure others will have found your sentiments grabby. And on some level this will not have gone unnoticed by FIL either.

Would he be able to afford to buy two places OP ? a little place on the coast and another near you ? That way he can spend time on the coast when the weather is decent and time with you and your family and still have assets.

I’m a little older than you @saraclara and couldn’t agree with you more.

Interestingly my stepson’s Mil came up with the same suggestion, fortunately he mentioned it to us and I told him about my parents’ friends who did it. The elderly relative had to go into care and they had to sell their house because although she owned the granny flat, it was on their land. Suddenly Mil’s plans weren’t mentioned again.

" He puts £120k in an account for her to buy a cabin."

Why would he do that though?

Also, why wouldn't he move in with his daughter as soon as she buys the bigger house to supervise the building of his cabin?

@Camphillgirl

My uncle had a beautiful cabin built in his garden and he moved out of his house into the garden cabin and he gave DS and his wife the house. After three years they split up and the house (including the cabin in the garden) was sold and proceeds divided between son and DIL .

My uncle is now homeless.

Get your FIL to get good legal advice before doing anything else.

That is just dreadful for your uncle. And to happen at that stage of life too with fewer opportunities to regroup and recover. My parents were keen to hand over their farm to me a number of years ago - it never happened because I was against it for their sakes - but amongst the many scenarios I ran through with them were. What if I died? My then husband would own their home and could legally throw them out (unlikely but still). What if we seperated? Half theirs to belong to him? We didnt even have children at the time so what loyalty or bind would he have had to the place? I know there are trusts and ways around these things but I cannot understand why people don't have these pretty basic 'what if?' conversations with themselves, with lawyers, etc

No more lazing around in pyjamas and eating chocolate days for me I guess

For a few months. It’s hardly forever.

@ComtesseDeSpair

Your DH should be pleased that his father is going to spend his old age comfortable and looked after, not griping because he’d counted on the proceeds of his death to pay for university fees.

This. He could still be alive when your children go to university.

He can do what he likes with his money; it doesn’t belong to anyone but him until he’s actually dead.

Also, why wouldn't he move in with his daughter as soon as she buys the bigger house to supervise the building of his cabin?

Because SIL’s partner wouldn’t allow it.

This has disaster written all over it.

I think you and your DH have to forget not wanting to upset FIL and speak with him. He's not old, he's not frail - he's managed to keep the whole thing secret from the people who have in effect been caring most about him, not the woman who visits him once a year.

I would speak to him and say you are concerned. SIL is his child but he sees her once a year. If the aim is to live near them and near the sea, he should just sell his house and go and live there in a property of his own.

A 'cabin' in someone's garden is still part of the property. the couple aren't even married (not that THAT makes a difference) but could split and he would be homeless. The only proviso would be that FIL is named in the deeds. But undoubtedly he's going to be stuck in that cabin all day until he is needed to babysit.

He wants to live with you for a 'few months" ? You owe each other a frank and direct conversation.

Your DH should be honest and speak his mind to his father RE unequal inheritance from his house.
He should be honest and tell him what he is uneasy about. In my experience parents are understanding.
Personally I don’t think your husband is wrong to be uneasy about this. I would be too. I would understand if my children were.
Really important for your husband to have honest open conversation to his Dad.

@ThornAmongstRoses

Also, why wouldn't he move in with his daughter as soon as she buys the bigger house to supervise the building of his cabin?

Because SIL’s partner wouldn’t allow it.

Well then he's an utter fool.

I think this has disaster written all over it. The fact he barely saw his DD before and he doesn’t get on with her OH it sounds like they just want a nice big house and are happy to take the money whilst allowing him to live at the bottom of the garden. The house won’t belong to him if they decide they want him to leave or sell the house he won’t have any claim to it. Also it does mean he won’t have any assets to pay for any care needed in the future.

If your SIL truly wanted to help him she would encourage him to buy a property nearby maybe in a retirement village where he could meet people but still be close to her. Sounds to me like that just want a bigger house and a live in babysitter! If she has a close relationship before maybe it would be different but she hasn’t.

I agree that he needs legal advice before he does this to find out exactly where he would stand financially.