Inheritance issues causing a massive tension in the family.

[ThornAmongstRoses]

My DH and his sister have no relationship with each other. It’s not that they actively dislike each other, it’s more that there’s just nothing there, just total indifference. They may see each other yearly at a family get together or something but there’s no contact in between those times, not even a text message here and there.

My FIL lives relatively close to us so is very involved in our lives (no problem at all, he’s a lovely man) and since he lost his wife (DH’s mum) just over 4 years ago we’ve taken him even more into our fold to ensure he doesn’t get lonely.

We live near the Midlands and DH’s sister and family live near Skegness. His sister comes down about once a year to see her dad and will stay for about a week with her partner and their children. FIL doesn’t go and stay with them though as with their two young children, and the fact the house is quite small, there’s isn’t really any room to accommodate FIL for any period of time.

Anyway, FIL has always said that when he passes away he would want his property sold and split 50:50 between DH and SIL.

However, last week he dropped a bombshell that he’s sold his house and is moving up to Skegness and will be having a Granny Annexe type Cabin built in SIL’s garden for him to live in.

We have seen the brochure for the Cabins and they are beautiful and cost about £100k to £130k depending on size and style.

We asked how on earth he would fit one in SIL’s garden as they only have a small garden and FIL told us that SIL is going to sell her house, and then he (FIL) is going to give SIL £90k from the sale of his own house and his contribution will allow for a mortgage big enough to her to buy a larger house with a big enough garden for his Cabin to be built in.

FIL’s house has already been sold for £250k and has said he will give £25k to my DH. The remainder will be used to give £90k to SIL (so she can buy a bigger house) and then the cost of building the Cabin.

SIL is waiting to start a new job which will enable them to pay the increased mortgage payments on whichever house they buy, compared to the payments they have for their current house.

My DH is quite upset as not only is SIL being given £90k, she will then also have a much larger house to show for it, and after FIL’s passing, a nice £120k accommodation in the back garden which will no doubt add a lot of value to her property.

DH is more upset as the 50% inheritance that was earmarked for him was mainly going to be for our children as we were going to put it into a university fund for them to use when they’re older.

FIL has also asked if he can come and live with us whilst everything “at the other end” gets sorted, which we have already said yes to.

FIL has got to leave his house at the end of April and has told us he’ll probably only be with us for a few months, but SIL hasn’t even started looking for a house yet, never mind the two months it takes to build the Cabin when the house has been bought.

It’s all such a mess.

There’s underlying tension brewing and I’m worried it’s going to cause a huge fracture in DH’s and FIL’s relationship and also that DH’s and SIL’s relationship will go from one of apathy to one of rivalry.

Are inheritance discrepancies a typical cause of family feuds? Is DH right to be feeling a bit irked by it?

Rather than the £125k that was supposed to be his fair share, he’s now getting £25k out of the whole £250k and everything else, in effect, is going to SIL.

I think you do need to sit father in law down and discuss with him has he any back up plans if circumstances changed and the proposed situation became unworkable.

I would suggest to him that he gets impartial advice before the house sale is finalised and money distributed.

Have you looked at the costs of housing in Skegness? What could he afford there? What happens when the log cabin gets older and needs repairs or if they don't get planning permission?

I agree completely with this. We shouldn't stand idly by and allow people that we love to be manipulated into making decisions which are not in their best interests because we don't want to appear grabby or because we are too 'nice'. People who are themselves guileless and inclined to think the best of people are easy prey for nasty grabby relatives. And these people most definitely exist, it is extraordinary and shocking what some people will say, do or promise for money and we cannot either be naive about that nor stand by and watch good people getting fucked over

@LimpLettice My last comment was in response to yours, apologies.

"That 1m won't last long at that rate."

A good 10yrs!

@theleafandnotthetree Quite. Ask anyone who has ever worked in this field and you'll hear some chilling stories. Protecting him is not grabby.

We will likely have similar issues in my family later on. My DB & I don't talk at all but he has 'borrowed' tens of thousands off my parents. We start an extension this year with a downstairs annexe ostensibly for DD but also to have space for them / one of them if we need. We certainly won't ask them to contribute, but mainly because I don't want any complications with him try to grab part of my home. He would. They have taken good impartial advice and given me PoA this year, the will is utterly equal & valuables have all been well hidden / accounted for. It's hard to think that of your own child, that's why you take outside advice.

Christ on a bike, his father is still alive, therefore not an inheritance issue, more of a stroppy tantrum by your entitled OH. His father is spending HIS OWN money, on a home that he can live in.

@ThornAmongstRoses

So if he did have to go into care who would be responsible for the fees? Because it’s not like he could sell his Cabin in the way other people sell their homes? He can’t sell a Cabin that’s built on land legally owned by SIL anyway can he?

I’m really not familiar with the specifics of fees pertaining to elderly care.

Look up Deprivation of Assets. If it LOOKS like your FIL has given away his house proceeds etc to avoid paying for care in later life, he could find himself up shit creek

@Bluntness100

My biggest fear is that FIL is going to hand this £90k over to SIL and then no other part of the plan will materialise

I think you’re starting to effectively accuse the sister of theft, of attempting to defraud her father. And there is no evidence to suggest this is the case. They are all happy with the arrangement. Your husband and by default you, don’t even know the sister anymore, there’s no relationship. But the father is happy with this. The issue here seems to be you and your husband, and I’m sorry but it really does seem to be primarily about money for you.

The father has made his decision, it’s not your place to have fears about how he spends his money. Unless you feel he lacks capability then he’s an adult who is capable of managing his own money, making his own decisions and knows his own child.

What if it is the case though?

diddl

That 1m won't last long at that rate

A good 10yrs

Dmil went into a care home with dementia in her early 90s. The doctors have said she will more than likely reach 100. Her brain is slowly going but there is nothing wrong with her body. It is £8k per month. (No idea where these £1k per month care homes are) 8k x 12 months x 8 years = £768,000

The money will run out before she does and then who knows where the money will come from.

The father has made his decision, it’s not your place to have fears about how he spends his money. Unless you feel he lacks capability then he’s an adult who is capable of managing his own money, making his own decisions and knows his own child

It becomes op’s concern when the fil comes to live free of charge in ops own home with no end date and he has given a big chunk of his money to his other child.

I do think everyone talking about how revolting it is to discuss money before he dies have never had the unfortunate luck of nasty grabby relatives.

Quite the opposite in my family they were the ones banking on the inherited money - they did none of the support, bulked at the need paid for care when relatives doing it were then themseleves serioulsy ill and later carehome costs and were arses about funeral costs and costs of winding estates up. In the years before the deaths they begrudged them a private operation that massively improved their later years and house improvements.

If they'd had a few years in the carehomes instead of just under a year each there'd have been no estate left at all.

I really do think here legal advice is needed here and there are many troublings or unclear aspects.

However I also think banking on money before people die is not just unpleasant but also pointless as so much can happen and care costs can be a huge financial shock to many families.

YABU. I think it's pathetic to squabble over the choices and financial decisions of a man who is still very much alive.

It feels quite entitled of your DH that he expects the money.

I don't care what my parents spend their money on. They've spent far more money on my sibling than me due to life choices, but I don't care because I'm an adult.

I hope that they live such full lives and travel to so many places that all they leave me is their photograph albums (and hopefully their dog).

Having inheritance in the thread title is a bit of a red herring.

It seems to me the main problem is that FIL kept his plans secret from DH because he knew DH would disapprove. DH is understandably upset to have been kept in the dark.

Then there is the question of whether it's all a series of bad financial decisions (yes IMO) and whether SIL has put undue pressure on him.

Unfortunately, as others have said it's his money, his life and his mistake to make.

There are a lot of assumptions being made, not only on this thread but also IRL.

You see FIL often. Surely you can express concern & disappointment about how much you'll all miss him - sports fixtures, sleepovers, meals. Does he plan to visit you? Could your DCs still go for sleepovers? Get him to explain the timescales (act dumb if necessary) then recommend that he gets his own legal advice. And also express dismay about how long you might all be squashing up to fit him in. 2 months = fine, but 2 years?? Heck, your younger will start school soon and your older DC will be going to high school in just a couple of years....

The more I read, the less I like this.

I completely understand why your DH would be upset. But I would also reiterate that its his DFs money to do with as he wishes. If I were him,
I’d be tempted to sit down and talk this through with his DF to point out why he feels aggrieved.
There are other issues DF needs to deal with. If DF needs residential care in the next few years and has handed over all his money to his DD for a bigger house, it could be considered to be deprivation of assets and she may well have to sell the house to pay for his care. That’s a very real possibility!
If he finds it impossible to love with his DD, he could find himself not being able to afford to live anywhere else as all his money will be tied up in her house.
If his DD and her husband split up after they’ve bought this new house with the help of your FIL, her husband could be entitled to half the house, which in effect means half FILs money.
The money he intends to spend on this garden room building will lose value almost immediately - he cant sell a purpose build building thats in someone’s garden for what he paid for it.

Try to get dh to just talk to him, if you can. Put hurt feelings aside. Try to ask questions but not pressurise or tell him what to do. Show willingness to support and help but not without limits or agency.

What happens if SIL buys a property, FIL gives her the £90k and then planning permission for any sort of cabin or annexe is refused?

@ThornAmongstRoses

So he wasn’t even honest. Don’t feel obligated to house him, he has money he can use. He may not like that idea, but that’s his problem.

No - and I think that hurts DH too.

To accommodate FIL my children are going to have to surrender their playroom and I’m having to surrender my office. It’s not like he’s easily slipping in and it just hurts that this is being asked of us for an indefinite length of time whilst God knows what SIL is doing.

I just wouldn't, after how it has played out. No way. He has changed his mind, so can you. And he wasn't honest, so that's the consequence.

Bythemillpond sadly dementia will take its toll on her body, on her ability to eat and to go to the toilet, she will find it harder to be mobile and to perform really basic tasks. The brain controls everything. My DM is only 70 and has advanced dementia and it’s been heartbreaking to watch get physical and mental decline.

The secrecy makes it seem iffy. I think have it out with the sister even if your DH falls out with her it will be better than her potentially taking the money buying a big house and then never getting planning permission for the cabin. Then your DH will be furious she will be estranged from your DH and FIL anyway and you FIL will not have the financial resources to buy himself anywhere else to live. He will also have no chance of getting any money back.

Right you and DH need to intervene.

Dont worry about pissing off your SIL as there is no real relationship there.

Worse case scenario FIL takes offence and flounces off, but he is planning on moving away anyway. If you speak to him at least you will both know you have tried your best to stop this disaster. Speaking to him may help to put your mind at rest as maybe he has thought about what will happen in later life. But if you don’t ask the questions you won’t know.

Point out the realistic time frame. I would say 12-18 months is realistic. Let him know you cannot accommodate him on a temporary basis for this length of time.

Set out the many legal ramifications and potential pitfalls he is potentially going to face.

If after all this he still wants to go ahead at least you will both know you have tried to help but ultimately it is his decision.

A caravan/chalet on the east coast and a smaller house near to you sounds like the ideal solution to this. Mind you that won’t get SIL her large house and garden or on site childminding.

@Bythemillpond

The father has made his decision, it’s not your place to have fears about how he spends his money. Unless you feel he lacks capability then he’s an adult who is capable of managing his own money, making his own decisions and knows his own child

It becomes op’s concern when the fil comes to live free of charge in ops own home with no end date and he has given a big chunk of his money to his other child.

And it is their place to have fears and opinions about ANYTHING which may have a significant impact on his future (and theirs incidentally). If he wanted to join a cult or marry a clear gold digger who was going to clear him out or start drinking a bottle of whiskey a day then yes, loving family members who have proven over years and years that they love this person are of course going to have concerns and SHOULD express them. Isn't that what you do for people you love? And yes, he is not making these seemingly bad decisions in a vacuum, OP and her husband are absolutely being drawn into it in ways impinging their lives but are not expected to have an opinion in it? How bizarre

@LottaHogs

What happens if SIL buys a property, FIL gives her the £90k and then planning permission for any sort of cabin or annexe is refused?

This ^^

Sounds like your SIL wants DF to not only pay towards her new house but a new holiday let income suite too.

As others have said, DF will have no legal right to any of SIL property or the cabin in her garden.
She hasn't even begun the process of buying anywhere.

Wouldn't surprise me if the next plan is an even bigger house with 1 room for DF.