To think that the EU have done more to endorse Brexit in the last 2 weeks than the UK managed in nearly 5 years

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ll start by saying I’ve never thought Brexit was in the long term interest of the UK and still don’t

But dear God, the EU’s behaviour over vaccinations and, in particular, the blatant prejudice around the Astra Zeneca vaccine has done more to endorse the UK leaving than anything that has been said in the UK before, during and after the vote

If not supporting incorrect statements talking a country down now?

This is entirely propeganda to suit the UK government

Of course it is! They held a gun at VDL, Macron's and Merkel's head and said please sabotage your vaccine programme, please question the efficacy, please ensure you mess up your contracts, and your procurement. Whatever you do please make sure the whole continent stops trusting you and the vaccines! Don't bother with lockdowns, waste of time just make sure you ignore the infection rate as it hits 40,000. You can even throw in the lies about covax and funding and investment if you cant. Just to serve us.

And Macron and Merkel just nodded along and did as they were told.

Of course they did.

@MarshaBradyo

Reading posts from pp about low contributions to Covax and looking at that chart highlights starkly how skewed people’s views are.

U.K. is making a strong contribution at third top. Reading the posts you’d think we were very low and lagging.

I was a die hard remainer but I do think this anti U.K. rhetoric from the left and inability to say anything positive will be to their detriment in the next elections. The left will need a better narrative than U.K. is poor at everything.

When it suits, its the EU, when it doesn't, its Germany France Italy etc etc

The point here is because the West (inc the EU) has so many vaccines on order and in the UKs case, exclusivity on these, all the money in the world will not enable a developing country to buy vaccine.

Its certainly not a Left issue, though given Bojo thinks capitalism and greed helped the UK, then maybe it is?

I think history will judge the UK and others harshly, its also v short sighted.

@maddy68

It's interesting as I'm not in the UK. But I read the UK press. This is entirely propeganda to suit the UK government. The EU has given 40%of it's vaccines to other countries. The UK has given nothing if you think that paints the EU in a poor light then then that's up to you this is a global pandemic not a UK one

The UK has mismanahed it from the start. They are still way behind other countries in giving the second vaccination

Well you learn something every day @maddy68 .

I congratulate the generosity of the EU, freely giving away 40% of it's contracted supply of vaccines to other countries and am shocked that the UK press has failed to report on this.

Can you let me know which countries benefited or were they donated through Covax?

Bah.

The EU has actually exported 17 million vaccines.

The vaccine companies oversold. Interestingly the US and UK took the financial and development risks while signing for numbers that could never have been delivered and would depend on serious manufacturing investment -400 million doses for the UK? The EU apparently contracted (badly) for a billion. The US has not got its full order book either.

Who exactly is negotiating with their eyes open and with some consideration of the actual situation? Not thee EU.

Novavax is interesting because it is a) more investment for the UK b) a short supply chain with excludes the EU c) its a new relationship for the UK with pharma d) its going to create jobs e) its looking to the future for vaccine development (which is definitely needed)

Who is thinking ahead here?

Does anyone think that the EU and their pirate law they considered last week has helped them? They are still talking to Britain about us giving them vaccine after someone (Rutte?) realised it was the free trade equivalent of shooting us and the rest of the world in the head. Now supply chains and contracts are shifting to cut them out. The Halix plant for AZ is still not licensed to produce which is within the EMA's power to sort out.

Now they want to negotiate with us. I wonder what Britain gets for that? Not being targetted with pirate style laws? Hmm.

The Halix plant for AZ is still not licensed to produce which is within the EMA's power to sort out.

That is not true.

www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0326/1206345-ema-vaccines/

The thing is that countries like the Netherlands don't agree with export bans. However, if the UK hoards what it manufacturers, then the Netherlands have stated they will implement the EU embargo wrt the Leiden plant. Interestingly, I think that if their embargo is implemented, they will still allow supplies to be distributed outward; to countries who are also keeping their supply lines open. Only not to countries which have higher vaccination rates and who are hoarding their own supplies.

The Dutch don't believe in the hoarding and battens down approach. That is why they wish to negotiate. A quid pro quo, if you will. You allow exports to us and we allow exports to you. If other countries don't want to negotiate, that of course is their prerogative.

@Cailleach1

The Halix plant for AZ is still not licensed to produce which is within the EMA's power to sort out.

That is not true.

www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0326/1206345-ema-vaccines/

The thing is that countries like the Netherlands don't agree with export bans. However, if the UK hoards what it manufacturers, then the Netherlands have stated they will implement the EU embargo wrt the Leiden plant. Interestingly, I think that if their embargo is implemented, they will still allow supplies to be distributed outward; to countries who are also keeping their supply lines open. Only not to countries which have higher vaccination rates and who are hoarding their own supplies.

The Dutch don't believe in the hoarding and battens down approach. That is why they wish to negotiate. A quid pro quo, if you will. You allow exports to us and we allow exports to you. If other countries don't want to negotiate, that of course is their prerogative.

We are negotiating with the EU, not the Dutch. In one day this plant has now been licensed after months of no production! Is it producing? No.

The law that the EU made -unlawful in the WTO very likely, if they wanted to actually use the vaccine not exported (or indeed licensed for the EU until today).

I'm sure the Dutch have a better insight into how bad the above looks, as they do understand trade and that "reciprocity" is not usually defined as "I've got no contractual rights and would like a bandit law to apply in order to fix matters". I'm glad the Dutch have some brains compared to some of their fellow EU MS. One nation out of 27, perhaps.

I don't think the Dutch gov't have entered any contract to supply AZ vaccines to the UK.

The Dutch will be the ones who enforce the embargo wrt the Leiden plant. And were at the table where the EU member states gave their backing to the potential blocking mechanism. Mark Rutte made no bones about the fact he would enforce the decision if the UK just kept hoarding their own supplies while also expecting to receive supplies manufactured in the Netherlands.

Are export bans unlawful? The UK effectively put one at agreement stage with OU. The US have put one in place and India has too (although if you write to them nicely, they might waive). Governments using national emergency powers in emergency situations. It's a global pandemic and people are dying. Act of God or whatnot. Having said that, I doubt many EU member states really want to have export bans in place. Certainly not a country like the Netherlands. It is catching, though, and they may be looking at their responsibility to their own populations. An 'if you can't beat them, join them' sort of scenario.

The 18 million doses of AZ made available to the EU are part of the 62 million Covid vaccines they have distributed within the EU itself. While 77 million vaccines were exported out of the EU countries. As the UK were recipients of 20 million of those vaccines, I think the EU member states are looking at the fact that all traffic seems to be one way. Of the other 50 odd million vaccines, a large contingent may be Covax. I'd hope so anyway.

This is an interesting piece from Fortune. It states 6% of the UK's population have been fully vaccinated with both doses, and half have received the first jab. Only 11% of the EU population have received their first jabs.

Earlier this week, the European Commission expanded those rules to allow the blockage of shipments to countries that themselves have effective vaccine export bans, or that are far ahead of the EU in their own inoculation drives.

The targets here are plainly AstraZeneca and the U.K. Since the end of last year, the EU has exported 21 million COVID vaccine doses to the U.K., and the U.K. has exported precisely none—to the EU or anywhere else. Overall, the Commission said Thursday, the EU has exported 77 million doses and only dispensed 62 million on its own turf. Only 11.6% of the EU's adults have received their first dose of a COVID vaccine, while in the U.K. more than half of all adults have been vaccinated.

fortune.com/2021/03/26/astrazeneca-plant-halix-covid-vaccines-ema/

A spot of good news in it all. The EMA stated that the Pfizer vaccine 'Comirnaty' can be transported at normal freezer temperatures for a one off two week period. Bit better than the -60 to -90 degrees C.

The EMA also said on Friday that the Pfizer shot could be transported at conventional freezer temperatures for a one-off period of two weeks, potentially accelerating the rollout. It is normally stored at between minus 60C and minus 90C.

www.ft.com/content/5673962a-a813-4a30-ba27-ee280e5022fa

Its not the ban that is unlawful, but repurposing of seized vaccine... a toothless threat

As the EU know. They have some reasonable lawyers somewhere.

“ I'm glad the Dutch have some brains compared to some of their fellow EU MS. One nation out of 27, perhaps”

It’s this sort of rude and unhelpful insult which undermines everything else you say, which is a shame because you don’t have to fling insults at 27 nationalities to make a political point.

So sick of the mud slinging.

Johnson: “ “I don’t want to see restrictions on the supply of drugs across borders. And I don’t want to see restrictions on vaccines or their ingredients across borders. I think that’s pretty commonsensical”

Also Johnson: make sure these 178 different medicines don’t get a lost of 178 medicines that are banned from export to Europe including many that can be used to treat coronavirus. The EU have been discussing an export ban and have disagreed on one. I’m not sure how you can support one whilst railing against the other? People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

@maddy68 I'm not in the UK either.
I'm in my 60's and can't get the vaccine. A 73 year old friend can't get it either.
I've been on the website, I've asked at the pharmacy.
I'm too young and no comorbidities.
Meanwhile my dsil has had two letters redirected to her asking for me to arrange a vaccination in the UK!

And the Prefet of our department says the slow rollout is lack of arms not doses!
And our vaccination centres are closing for lunch.
Hardly a sense of urgency.
In a country with 38k new cases of covid a day this is a shambles.

@QuentininQuarantino

Johnson: “ “I don’t want to see restrictions on the supply of drugs across borders. And I don’t want to see restrictions on vaccines or their ingredients across borders. I think that’s pretty commonsensical”

Also Johnson: make sure these 178 different medicines don’t get a lost of 178 medicines that are banned from export to Europe including many that can be used to treat coronavirus. The EU have been discussing an export ban and have disagreed on one. I’m not sure how you can support one whilst railing against the other? People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

Johnson has spent his entire life saying one thing but doing something else entirely... Be it climate change (coal mining/Green deal) Heathrow/airport expansion or vaccines.

Kwasi Kwarteng has said this morning that the UK will vaccinate its entire population and now is not the time to ease up and only then, depending on the roadmap and if there are any excess vaccines, will the UK "look at" additional help to anyone else.... as i said, Pull the ladder up, i'm ok jack.

Quentin I agree with you the negativity is wearing.

The amount of times Jack has been wheeled out.

I think history will judge the UK and others harshly

You do but no, many will look to the fastest vaccine development we’ve seen and advances in science and appreciate that.

There will be learnings. But there’s no way the countries which enabled vaccines that brought about the end of the pandemic will be judged harshly.

It’s so sad that is the narrative now.

I looked at a sponsored post on IG from Oxford and the amount of trolls and toxicity they received was horrendous.

People aren’t great at responding well to what is actually helping us get out of this.

@MarshaBradyo

Quentin I agree with you the negativity is wearing.

The amount of times Jack has been wheeled out.

Lol... Try coming out with a constructive argument as to why you think its ok for the EU to allow export of vaccine, whilst they have shockingly high infections and deaths but its perfectly fine for the uk to use its contract terms to stop vaccine produced in UK for filling EU contracts?

Have you seen our infection and death rates? they are at their lowest since late summer & thats fantastic but i'm sick to death bojo and many on here saying its all an international effort... horse shit or pull the la...... :)

I think you should get a tshirt made up JasJas ;

Can I ask are you in the U.K., and how old you are and have you had the vaccine?

@MarshaBradyo

Quentin I agree with you the negativity is wearing.

The amount of times Jack has been wheeled out.

Well Jack’s not had much on now since the referendum

@MarshaBradyo

I think you should get a tshirt made up JasJas ;

Can I ask are you in the U.K., and how old you are and have you had the vaccine?

Compelling argument Marsha, you ve convinced me lol!

Btw i havent asked you your age or medical history, so don't be an arse and ask me mine... again.

I see there has been a bit of a reset attempt today with the call for a pandemic treaty www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56572775

Both UK and EU have made an absolute hash of this, the issue for us here is Johnson can't admit publicly how much we need the EU and the EU - well, I have no idea what they have been doing!

jasjas Aren't you tired of the endless bleating? Why not try some good old fashioned stoicism?

You all live in the western world your chances of having a vaccine this year are high, your chances of being treated in an outstanding hospital that will care for you is high, your chance of recovery is ten times that of other parts of the world. And yet you are still so ungrateful.

So the EU have a delay, well that is not ideal given the circumstances, but at some point no doubt everyone will get the vaccine. I find this continuous 'I am alright Jack' weird and old fashioned, out of kilter with reality.

We will be vaccinating our population, of course, as will you. The timing might be different but that is life.

I suspect your real beef is that the UK has not fallen flat after brexit, it has not been turned into a lorry park or an outpost, it is actually doing rather well.
I have listened over the years at the endless speculation of our downfall, and it must be rather dispiriting to see nothing but positivity and pride about our vaccine roll out, the country is coming out of lockdown, and the EU in the slow lane. That is what this is really about not the vaccines.

@jasjas1973

Btw i havent asked you your age or medical history, so don't be an arse and ask me mine... again.

God I don’t care I’m on threads with others saying theirs. I didn’t realise people got so insulted

It can go a long way to explaining why people get so entrenched with a view, but also easier to understand worries etc

Why so aggressive?

It’s interesting to me to see posters deriding the government response for most of 2020, we’re the worst in the world, highest deaths, worst at test and trace ( testing is actually brilliant now and I think this too is helping with reducing cases) now on the attack because we are doing something right and our deaths are dropping and we are slowly making our way down the “worse deaths” table.
Doing better than our neighbours (for once) has become a stick to beat us with as we’re now smug and selfish

Long term I think this will be good news for U.K. pharma. Maybe we could look at being a bigger player in the vaccine world ( not as big as India / Us obviously) . It’s obviously a strength here with developing vaccines, running trials, and manufacturing. Great for jobs too in wales , Scotland and north east England. Long term this could be good for us and we can be a big exporter of vaccines to the EU.