To think that the EU have done more to endorse Brexit in the last 2 weeks than the UK managed in nearly 5 years

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ll start by saying I’ve never thought Brexit was in the long term interest of the UK and still don’t

But dear God, the EU’s behaviour over vaccinations and, in particular, the blatant prejudice around the Astra Zeneca vaccine has done more to endorse the UK leaving than anything that has been said in the UK before, during and after the vote

@MarshaBradyo

The government has been lauding the Jenner Institute at the University of Oxford, where researchers are working with AstraZeneca on a vaccine to combat Covid-19. In late July, the Institute's director Adrian Hill, told Sophie Inge of Research Professional News that, 'across the programmes at the Jenner Institute—and there are more than 12 vaccines in clinical development now – the European Commission has probably been our largest funder over the past five years until now'

The EU is not directly funding the coronavirus vaccine, but it has been key to developing the Institute's capacity to do that work. 'So that's going to leave a gap and we are working hard to try to fill that, but it's not easy, ' said Hill

Sarah Gilbert, professor of vaccinology at the institute and one of the most prominent figures of the UK's scientific response to the pandemic, added that non-Covid vaccine programmes, including on flu, are likely to be affected: 'We have had EU funding and it's not clear where that kind of money is going to come from in future.'

[quote jasjas1973]@MarshaBradyo

The government has been lauding the Jenner Institute at the University of Oxford, where researchers are working with AstraZeneca on a vaccine to combat Covid-19. In late July, the Institute's director Adrian Hill, told Sophie Inge of Research Professional News that, 'across the programmes at the Jenner Institute—and there are more than 12 vaccines in clinical development now – the European Commission has probably been our largest funder over the past five years until now'

The EU is not directly funding the coronavirus vaccine, but it has been key to developing the Institute's capacity to do that work. 'So that's going to leave a gap and we are working hard to try to fill that, but it's not easy, ' said Hill

Sarah Gilbert, professor of vaccinology at the institute and one of the most prominent figures of the UK's scientific response to the pandemic, added that non-Covid vaccine programmes, including on flu, are likely to be affected: 'We have had EU funding and it's not clear where that kind of money is going to come from in future.'[/quote]
Where’s that from?

The EU is not directly funding the coronavirus vaccine

Who did?

@MarshaBradyo

Johnson is, right now, blaming europe for their current Cv infections, saying that whatever happens in EU, will wash up on our shores.... getting his defense in early.

This ‘blame’ you think is here is such an odd view.

You'll have to explain what you mean?

You ve once again taken what i said out of context, i was replying to Sash saying the UK wouldn't be blaming eu.... i pointed out that BJ has and always will blame anyone but himself.........

fwiw the UK variant is the cause of europes infections atm and its why your view that the EU can go swing, is so short sighted, variants can and will appear anywhere where CV is allowed to run freely.

You hate the EU, thats pretty clear from the tone of all your posts, but to hate individual states too?

Er this is totally and utterly incorrect. I care very much for member states, and I was married in Sweden, and spent most of my young life in Europe, I do however have a big problem with the EU commission. Mainly because of things like this! Unaccountable and bureaucratic. Nothing to do with Europe. The two are entirely separate jasjas Love Europe - hate EU commission - is that clear now?

That statement wasn’t about blame. It was more to stop us getting too excited and doing what we wanted, but mostly to MPs who were more gung ho and also likely being lobbied by travel industry.

I find it odd that people see it as blaming the EU.

Maybe if it had been more direct as Merkel was - we are locking down due to the British variant.

An offer to sell any surplus vaccines to Ireland is only a headline in British newspapers, maybe words emanating from a British politician for some reaction

Why would I believe the Irish gov over my own?
I don't believe they would lie - and it is being very heavily reported. So I think on this cail your information is out of date:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-vaccines-uk-ireland-eu-b1823511.html

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/britain-to-offer-ireland-spare-covid-vaccines-zttrwd6ml

Perhaps Ireland is worried about accepting the very kind British offer as it may impact further on the very big divisions and cracks within the EU?

This is more likely actually, but they don't want the Irish people to know that politics is coming before lives, so they will just pretend the offer is not there.
Disingenuous, but it seems to be catching all over the EU as they sink further and further into this mess.

That statement wasn’t about blame. It was more to stop us getting too excited and doing what we wanted, but mostly to MPs who were more gung ho and also likely being lobbied by travel industry

Johnson telling the nation that CV currently ravaging europe might "wash up on our shores.... has history shows us" whilst conveniently forgetting that this variant was originally from the UK..... is most definitely seeking to divert blame.

Agree that some tory MPs are affected by lobbying... mostly from former PMs.

@Itsalonghaul

Perhaps Ireland is worried about accepting the very kind British offer as it may impact further on the very big divisions and cracks within the EU?

This is more likely actually, but they don't want the Irish people to know that politics is coming before lives, so they will just pretend the offer is not there.
Disingenuous, but it seems to be catching all over the EU as they sink further and further into this mess.

Lets see the formal UK offer to Ireland, if there is one.

Johnson telling the nation that CV currently ravaging europe might "wash up on our shores.... has history shows us" whilst conveniently forgetting that this variant was originally from the UK.

The varient was originally identified in the uk, that does not necessarily mean it started in here . The uk does more sequencing than anywhere in Europe so it’s unsurprising we found it first.

@jasjas1973

That statement wasn’t about blame. It was more to stop us getting too excited and doing what we wanted, but mostly to MPs who were more gung ho and also likely being lobbied by travel industry

Johnson telling the nation that CV currently ravaging europe might "wash up on our shores.... has history shows us" whilst conveniently forgetting that this variant was originally from the UK..... is most definitely seeking to divert blame.

Agree that some tory MPs are affected by lobbying... mostly from former PMs.

If what he said would happened had already done so and he said we are in this position entirely due to the EU then that is different. But to MPs wanting to open travel more - this is a warning to curb that from going ahead.

I think we’ll have to disagree. There’s often debate on Johnson’s statements on here. I’m sure I’m right but then I’m sure you think so too ;

but they don't want the Irish people to know that politics is coming before lives, so they will just pretend the offer is not there.

Erm, total bollocks

It’s been widely reported in the Irish media, with the Irish government stating they are keen to start talking. No official communication from the U.K. has occurred however.

The consensus here is that by the time the U.K. are actually ready to share, Irish supply will have caught up to demand anyway, so not particularly relevant anyway.

@MarshaBradyo

its just that... talk.

Does anyone have the relative contribution to Covax easily?

I’m pretty sure we’re higher than EU

No, contribution to Covax is less from Britain that EU. I think like the vaccines offer to Ireland, that may also only exist as a headline in a British newspaper, if it is claimed. The British contribution to Covax is less that Germany on it's own. Also, the European Commission has increased theirs alone to around a €billion. Haven't looked at the other EU member states. You'd have to bear in mind, beyond the pledges, that vaccines manufactured in the EU member states are being distributed to Covax recipient countries. If ca.70 million doses were distrubuted from the EU, and 20 million went to the UK, then among those other 50 million may have Covax ones. The EU didn't put in any clauses banning export of vaccines made in their territory. Even the proposed 'proportionate and recipricosity' element of would not affect those who are worse off than the EU states. However, it would be reciprocal for countries who are hoarding the vaccines manufactured in their own countries.

As for governments benefiting from their support of vaccines being developed. Germany funded BioNTech/Pfizer. It did not put an export ban clause which claimed first dibs on all resultant vaccines which were manufactured in Germany. It did not state all they had to have full vaccination in Germany before any were allowed to be distributed abroad. It left all supply lines open.

On a country basis, dated 22nd February. www.statista.com/chart/24244/donations-to-covax-by-country/

Dated 19th February,
ec.europa.eu/international-partnerships/news/eu-doubles-contribution-covax-eu1-billion-ensure-safe-and-effective-vaccines-low-and-middle_en

Why would I believe the Irish gov over my own? I don't believe they would lie - and it is being very heavily reported.

My main takeaway from studying history at school was the Bias of sources. Of course they would present "their truth" as would the other side. I try and read press from both countries and consider vested interest and hope to find the closest thing to the truth somewhere in the middle.

I have had to step away from this thread for a few days because it is like watching football supporters defending their side to the death. Do we, as humans, need desperately to have a cause to be loyal to, at any cost? Can't we agree that neither side is fucking perfect, and if you're lucky enough to be on the winning side for one match (vaccines, maybe) you shouldn't bloody gloat about it as there'll be a match you'll lose too (deaths, perhaps) , and it's better to just have a bloody beer and get through the game together. Argh.

Ps. I had my AZ on Wednesday, in Spain, on the first day they were resuming the jabs, and the atmosphere was lovely. Everybody happy and feeling very grateful and proud of human achievement and hopeful for the future.

Just scanning quickly doesn’t it mean we are U.K. is third highest in the world?

It’s funny re. Boris statement re. Washing up on our shores. I took that as a warning sign to the U.K. public that this is not over yet rather than a let’s blame the U.K. for future lockdowns.
People read in different interpretations depending on their views in Boris and possibly brexit too. I guess that may always be the case.

The U.K. are already taking about boosters in autumn to over 70’s, jab number 3 for millions of people here in the U.K. and it’ll be necessary across the EU too.
This is going to go on for years imo and so for all of us there will be opportunities for sharing vaccines and co operation. I think we’ll get there and it will settle down.

Yes, on that chart the UK is third in individual countries monetary contribution, and not higher than EU as was stated. Some others are also contributing through the manufacturing and distribution of vaccines to Covax recipient countries. Pledging all the money in the world isn't much good it nobody is willing to let a single jab leave their own space to supply the recipient Covax countries.

So, you have to bear in mind that the UK aren't contributing any of the vaccines it manufactures until there is a surplus. 70million vaccines left the EU's member states territory. 20 million to the UK, so maybe some or most of the other 50 million was sent to Covax countries. It is good that the US have contributed so much as they have an export ban in place so are only giving money and not distributing vaccines to the programme; notwithstanding the allocation of the few AZ vaccines to Canada and Mexico, which is not authorised for use in the US itself.

Some people think it is good and proper for their country to keep all the vaccines they manufacture for the benefit of their own citizens.i.e. hoarding. And only after all their citizens are taken care of, will they let any be exported. That is a valid perspective.

www.bbc.com/news/world-55795297

Reading posts from pp about low contributions to Covax and looking at that chart highlights starkly how skewed people’s views are.

U.K. is making a strong contribution at third top. Reading the posts you’d think we were very low and lagging.

I was a die hard remainer but I do think this anti U.K. rhetoric from the left and inability to say anything positive will be to their detriment in the next elections. The left will need a better narrative than U.K. is poor at everything.

But it’s gone in both directions @MarshaBradyo - and look at Germany on the chart too - I hadn’t heard about Covax here (none of my Spanish friends have), if only read about it here, so I’d assumed the EU hadn’t paid, nice to see Germany chipping in.

Isn’t this all a bit “my dad is taller than your Dad”?

The Eu is 27 countries while the U.K. is 4 so you would expect the EU overall contribution to be higher in absolute amounts but the U.K. is definitely punching above its weight compared to it’s size.
I think sometimes the EU talks about the U.K. as if we are equal in size etc when we are clearly not. We are also not a vaccine exporter usually. We have set up a vaccine manufacturing facility almost from scratch in the past year. Of course we’re not at the level or ability where we can export vaccines to others yet but we will be able to do so n the future. The AZ facility here produces I think 2 million doses a week as it was only set up to supply the U.K.
It would only scratch the surface of the EU’s requirements even if they did export some now.
The EU were also mainly supposed to supply themselves at the start but spent too long faffing and not long enough sorting manufacture out with AZ and helping them iron out problems.
People forget that AZ are also under delivering to the U.K.. but we aren’t threatening them, more asking how can we help.

@MarshaBradyo

its just that... talk.

Does anyone have the relative contribution to Covax easily?

I’m pretty sure we’re higher than EU

No, on monetary contribution, the claim (as above) was that the UK was giving a higher contribution than the EU. With the monetary pledges, that was just corrected as the third individual country, with Germany and the US giving more. The EU (which was the comparison) are giving way higher again, both monetarily -through European Commission and otherwise - and additionally with EU countries also contributing through allowing the distribution outwards of vaccines manufactured in their territory. Again, the US is the highest money pledger, with a vaccine export ban in place, so it's contribution will be mostly only that for the moment. again notwithstanding Canada allocation.

They are facts. As was the Irish government stating that (although reported in the British media) the UK gov't made no such offer about distribution of vaccines from the UK to Ireland.

@QuentininQuarantino

But it’s gone in both directions *@MarshaBradyo* - and look at Germany on the chart too - I hadn’t heard about Covax here (none of my Spanish friends have), if only read about it here, so I’d assumed the EU hadn’t paid, nice to see Germany chipping in.

Isn’t this all a bit “my dad is taller than your Dad”?

I would like people to be more positive generally.

About contributions to Covax, to development of vaccines, to at cost solutions. And so on

I also agree by size UK position is good not poor at all.

@MarshaBradyo me too. I’m so fed up of the squabbling over crumbs. Aren’t things shit enough. But I guess that’s why the OP started the thread and then slunk off. And we all took the bait because of the B word.

It's interesting as I'm not in the UK. But I read the UK press. This is entirely propeganda to suit the UK government. The EU has given 40%of it's vaccines to other countries. The UK has given nothing if you think that paints the EU in a poor light then then that's up to you this is a global pandemic not a UK one

The UK has mismanahed it from the start. They are still way behind other countries in giving the second vaccination