To think that the EU have done more to endorse Brexit in the last 2 weeks than the UK managed in nearly 5 years

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ll start by saying I’ve never thought Brexit was in the long term interest of the UK and still don’t

But dear God, the EU’s behaviour over vaccinations and, in particular, the blatant prejudice around the Astra Zeneca vaccine has done more to endorse the UK leaving than anything that has been said in the UK before, during and after the vote

India were feeling comfortable that they were over the worse (probably spoke too soon with this virus) and clocked up 60,000 infections just yesterday. So if they have made a decision to try and vaccinate their population because they fear an enormous peak who are we to stop them? Any country would do the same. India were actually doing us a favour by providing extra capacity, so that is why the UK are quite relaxed (and more than that, thank you) to India for everything they have done, and we wish them well. In a country the size of India, of course they must do all they can to stem the infection rate.

The UK does not have a problem with any country, we simply feel the supply chains should be kept open for the benefit of everyone.

**worst

If you listen to MEPs you’ll see that even they do not blame the U.K.. criticism is directed to AZ alone.

Not that I think they have a leg to stand on as production is slow in EU but even the people involved do not cite U.K. protectionism as an issue at all.

It’s posters on mn who are doing this.

And by the way, the notion of reciprocity is always conditioned by law. This means that countries stick to contractual terms in trade or anarchy results.

According to the EU, reciprocity means “can you ignore my duff contract and give us vaccine anyway”.

It is both ridiculous and self serving. Years of lecturing Britain in free trade, sticking rigidly to third country requirements, insisting on bureaucratic checks for goods (including pharma).

And it has bitten them very badly. They literally wrote their own legal mess and continue to do so.

Give it six months and Britain will be having bilateral discussions with the Dutch, Irish and Belgians as we want. Ignore the EU.

India is the biggest supplier to the International Covax programme, so roll out to the poorer nations will be affected. It states that the export ban is only for 2 to 3 months. However, protectionism is catching and the most vulnerable will suffer. In the grand scheme of things, it would probably be just a tad hypocritical if the UK or the US berated India for banning exports of the vaccines they make when they are doing the same thing. Also, India don't seem to be putting a stay on exports until their entire population is vaccinated. At 1.336 billion people, I'd imagine that would take us into the foreseeable future; and then some.

The US export ban on materials may have had an impact on India's capacity to produce vaccines. Which is now in turn affecting the UK's anticipated supply of vaccine from SII in India.

I expect many countries will be looking at measures to ensure their own health security for the future.

www.ft.com/content/5349389c-8313-41e0-9a67-58274e24a019

The thing that is ironic about this whole thread is that when our govt signs a contract for supply of anything- hospitals, computer systems, train lines etc and the projects are slow or late, the criticism of the govt (regardless of party) is deadening. Procurement is terrible. They are all incompetent etc.

When the govt signs a water tight contract that is delivered to schedule - yet again the criticism is deafening.

@Mintjulia

The thing that is ironic about this whole thread is that when our govt signs a contract for supply of anything- hospitals, computer systems, train lines etc and the projects are slow or late, the criticism of the govt (regardless of party) is deadening. Procurement is terrible. They are all incompetent etc.

When the govt signs a water tight contract that is delivered to schedule - yet again the criticism is deafening.

Quite. I think some are so biased it’s hard to change their own narrative.

@MarshaBradyo

If you listen to MEPs you’ll see that even they do not blame the U.K.. criticism is directed to AZ alone.

Not that I think they have a leg to stand on as production is slow in EU but even the people involved do not cite U.K. protectionism as an issue at all.

It’s posters on mn who are doing this.

This.

@sashagabadon

AZ has set up dedicated manufacturing in regions all over the world to supply those regions on licence. That’s the opposite of “protectionism” imo.

No, the British gov't's exclusivity agreement with OU which then was partnered with AZ is the protectionist measure. That the entire population would be covered by doses manufactured in the UK before a single vaccine was exported.

AZ is a company and doesn't have the power to implement national measures. Governments do though, hence the Biden Administration's export ban. And India's gov't stay on vaccine exports now.

Well, it must be recognised that governments have the perfect right to implement protectionist measures for their own territory. It may not be admired by those outside that territory who get the short end of the stick, but may be by those inside; who are the ones that matter to the gov't.

What would be hypocritical is if you say 'my' government can do it, but if others do, they are rotters'. And indeed berating others for doing it while applauding your own for being so 'clever' as to do it.

However, I think protectionism is not good for the supply of medicines and associated products. A dearth of just simple laboratory chemicals and instruments could cause huge problems. How that applies to the enforcement of emergency powers because of a pandemic situation, I have to leave to others.

I agree with Sasha

AZ has set up a system where regions supply to themselves

This constant watching another region and expecting their faster supply is nothing to do with their protectionism but an inability to admit mistakes with own production

The massive difference though cail is that India are NOT in breach of any contract, it was a goodwill offer of help - not a cast iron contract.
So India can do whatever she likes without fear of the courts or any tarnishing of the international reputation.

You seem to have this block about understanding the central points.

AZ has a cast iron contract to the UK
AZ has a best efforts contract with the EU

Both are bound in law.

India was offering help supply the UK as a favour, completely different.

So please try to grasp the differences.

The EU messed up both their contracts and procurement. They need to take responsibility for their mistakes, and ask for assistance in the usual diplomatic avenues and I am sure things will be resolved.

Threatening and being hostile will only serve to ensure no country or pharma especially will wish to work with them again.

One thing that Kate Bingham said in the republica interview was that she tried to make the U.K. “good customers” that pharma companies would want to work with, offering help with every aspect where possible to do so. Did they need help with clinical trials? Well the U.K. can help with that etc etc ( explains why we have so many trials here and half the nation seems to be on one )
That is a completely and fundamentally opposite approach to that of the EU and is still playing out now.

and remember how many of the Left objected to Kate Bingham as well?

AZ hadn't set it up to only supply that region as it was exporting batches from India to the UK. The Indian gov't has stepped in to stop that.

@Cailleach1

AZ hadn't set it up to only supply that region as it was exporting batches from India to the UK. The Indian gov't has stepped in to stop that.

Depends on the individual contracts

Have you read them? The ones online at least

@MaMaLa321

and remember how many of the Left objected to Kate Bingham as well?

I know it was rife

I bet some still can’t muster a good word.

Rather criticise from the position of low understanding

@Cailleach1

AZ hadn't set it up to only supply that region as it was exporting batches from India to the UK. The Indian gov't has stepped in to stop that.

India is a power house when it comes to vaccines, we are a minnow in comparison, hence why manufacturing here can only serve U.K. market right now. But that will change I am sure over time as more manufacturing comes on line here along with other vaccines. India has given doses to U.K. outside of contract to be helpful, presumably as we asked them nicely, good old fashioned diplomacy. And I bet they are lent and will be returned when the U.K. has the capacity to do so.

SII may have had an agreement to supply AZ. They are a vaccine manufacturer. They are not the gov't. The Indian gov't has now put a stop to vaccines leaving India while Indian rates of infection are increasing. It is basically is declaring a state of emergency. The manufacturers may have been impacted by a reduced capacity to produce vaccines because of a shortage of required materials.

Yes precisely, but India are saying they will still want to send supply. So I think it is short term and fine. We are producing vaccines here as well.

Yes, India has huge capacity (usually, and with no export bans in other countries) to manufacture vaccines. It also has a population of 1.4 billion people. I don't think the agreement was with the Indian government. The Serum Institute of India is not a state company.

The comparator is the Indian gov't ensuring that all the Covid vaccines that are manufactured in India, stay in India in order vaccinate that 1.4 billion population. I haven't read that the Indian gov't have stated that they are keeping their new protections (export ban) in place until that goal is achieved. It takes them a year to make 1.5 billion vaccines. Would that two doses were needed, it might take them two years to achieve that goal. I read it was only for around the 2 month mark. We mustn't forget that those companies are also still making other vaccines, not just against Covid-19.

I do think that diplomacy is the way forward. The way things are going, everyone is just reacting to everyone else's ban and preparing to batten down the hatches.

In any scenario, many deaths (more in some places than others) until summer. Hopefully a slight reprieve in summer (like last year) and production of different vaccines in different places having ramped up and becoming available to all those places asap. Then a better time in Autumn for everyone.

We live in hope.

www.bbc.com/news/business-56218058

@Itsalonghaul

The massive difference though cail is that India are NOT in breach of any contract, it was a goodwill offer of help - not a cast iron contract. So India can do whatever she likes without fear of the courts or any tarnishing of the international reputation.

You seem to have this block about understanding the central points.

AZ has a cast iron contract to the UK
AZ has a best efforts contract with the EU

Both are bound in law.

India was offering help supply the UK as a favour, completely different.

So please try to grasp the differences.

The EU messed up both their contracts and procurement. They need to take responsibility for their mistakes, and ask for assistance in the usual diplomatic avenues and I am sure things will be resolved.

Threatening and being hostile will only serve to ensure no country or pharma especially will wish to work with them again.

This ^^

Here in the UK I am expecting things to be significantly better in a week or so, not by the autumn. We are coming out of lockdown, it has been tough but worth it. We are now in control at least currently. I am hopeful of a great summer, and I hope as many countries as possible look after their people. Get them vaccinated, look after their health and do everything possible to prevent the third wave.

Covid is the enemy here, we need to remember that. We can learn from each other, we should be able to co operate in every way to beat the bloody thing.

*You seem to have this block about understanding the central points.

AZ has a cast iron contract to the UK
AZ has a best efforts contract with the EU

EU say differently & that best efforts is in both contracts, plenty of AZ trials were done in europe.

But the bottom line is that its immoral for the UK to vaccinating its least vulnerable with vaccines made in europe and even international charities are saying that that the UK is on target to have hoarded over 100m vaccine doses.
When approached as to why they wouldn't release these, the Govt refused to comment.

"i'm all right Jack"

@jasjas1973

*You seem to have this block about understanding the central points.

AZ has a cast iron contract to the UK
AZ has a best efforts contract with the EU

EU say differently & that best efforts is in both contracts, plenty of AZ trials were done in europe.

But the bottom line is that its immoral for the UK to vaccinating its least vulnerable with vaccines made in europe and even international charities are saying that that the UK is on target to have hoarded over 100m vaccine doses.
When approached as to why they wouldn't release these, the Govt refused to comment.

"i'm all right Jack"

As in 100m ready to go?

I doubt it as we’d not be slowing down this month