To think that the EU have done more to endorse Brexit in the last 2 weeks than the UK managed in nearly 5 years

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ll start by saying I’ve never thought Brexit was in the long term interest of the UK and still don’t

But dear God, the EU’s behaviour over vaccinations and, in particular, the blatant prejudice around the Astra Zeneca vaccine has done more to endorse the UK leaving than anything that has been said in the UK before, during and after the vote

But the way UK remainers are using the vaccine rollout problems in the EU to reconcile themselves to Brexit is, frankly, a bit pathetic

You are totally missing my point

I don’t and will never agree it was the best choice but all of this has done nothing to prove it was the wrong choice for those who wanted it

And, more importantly, it’s gone a long way to convincing those who didn’t want it, that it might not have been the worst choice ever

Interested to hear why you think that’s ‘pathetic’

Even if we had remained in the EU the UK government of whatever shade of Conservative it was would have opted out of the EU procurement scheme and would have gone it alone on vaccine purchase and manufacture.

The difference if we had voted to Remain is that there would have been a different Conservative Prime Minister and the pandemic response would have been far better and quicker.

I was an arch remainer, however I had hesitancy over the way the EU treated Greece after the banking crisis and then the dreadful way Italy have been treated re Refugees arriving there. (Basically being left to get on with it themselves). Now this vaccine fiasco has been the final nail in the coffin for me.

However I still wish we could go back to an EU which is just a trade and free movement association. I still hate the likes of Farrage and Johnson, whose lies about immigration/Eu budget/laws were/are a disgrace.

The Brexit vote was in 2016
Vaccine supply did not become an issue until January 2021
Vaccine supply will cease to be an issue by July 2021
Brexit will still be a problem in June 2026

Well I don’t feel embarrassed now, so here’s one online person to skew your survey. I agree the EU have fucked up over this issue but it absolutely does not negate the rest of the severe impact Brexit will have on our economy - Boris has fucked up far far far more and we ended up with one of the worst infection rates in the world under his watch, so... And one success with the vaccines (and I agree it is a success) doesn’t suddenly mean the vast majority of Brexiters voted with their brains and not their prejudices

@ListeningQuietly

The Brexit vote was in 2016 Vaccine supply did not become an issue until January 2021 Vaccine supply will cease to be an issue by July 2021 Brexit will still be a problem in June 2026

Again totally missing the point here

It’s about the perception of how the EU reacts in a crisis and this has damaged them hugely

Also a remainer.

I agree that this plays right into the hands of the arguments that the EU is a sluggish machine that achieves nothing quickly. On balance, no I certainly am not yet convinced leave was the correct decision.

I am unclear as to whether the UK could still have opted to take it's own path on the vaccine even if it had still been in the EU. This, for me would be quite key, as the remain argument often follows the narrative that we always did have agency and the ability to make our own way on the majority of things.

It’s about the perception of how the EU reacts in a crisis and this has damaged them hugely
THe UK press have dined out of the Vaccine issue for the last few weeks.

The whole world has dined out on the incompetence of the UK for the last 5 years

and will do for the next 5 years

I’m a remainer but agree with the OP. They’re vaccine strategy has been a shambles. In contrast, as much as it pains me to admit it, Boris has pulled a blinder.

It's just because we are all interested and mostly understand corona that we can point at the eu and see issues. Issues with large lumbering burcoracey etc.. Issues with so many cooks..
. However this inadequacy is not new to me those who have been interested in a variety of issues with the eu for a long time.. It's just cornora has scooped us all up.

But maybe they wouldn't have done that if we hadn't left. Which doesn't endorse leaving; it endorses staying.

ListeningQuietly I’m assuming you’re deliberately missing the point now

The Brexit vote was close

No one who voted to leave is going to have been convinced differently by this situation

Plenty who voted to stay will be relieved we’re out based on this situation in isolation

The upshot being that support for staying / re-entering has dipped massively

And to think that’s untrue is simply naive

Oh no!! Imagine being dragged into these arguments with our high death rate, I also don't understand why eu citizen don't feel more angry.

Imagine vaccines here sat unused in warehouses.

The UK Vaccine arrangements were set up while inside the EU
not all EU countries are in the central purchasing

and has the UK done everything else perfectly ?

People believe the pro Tory press propaganda. It’s sad. The EU has exported more vaccines than any single country. The individual countries decided to suspend use whilst considering safety nothing much to do with EU.

The country made a bad decision re Brexit and are now desperately trying to hide the impact.

But maybe they wouldn't have done that if we hadn't left. Which doesn't endorse leaving; it endorses staying.

It really doesn’t

It enforces the perception that their decisions are not based on what is best for their members

People are dying in their member states yet they’ve chosen to play games with the AZ vaccine because it’s British

This absolutely illustrates what was said pre ref..

We can move swiftly and independently according to our own needs and wants and this is exactly what we have done. I felt so smothered and chained in the "bloc". How ursuala still has her job!!

The way that the vaccine has been handled is a very British success, you are drawing on lots of medical, research, pharma, manufacturing, negotiations and legal strengths we have here. I find myself really happy with it not just because of COVID but it is a great reminder of the assets that we have in Britain.

Wouldn’t it be great if we could just keep doing that, independently of the EU? I don’t see why not. Ignore this year - its totally atypical. But I do think post Brexit there will be equal successes. There are a lot of very motivated people post Brexit to improve our lives. I don’t rate Johnson but I do think economically there is a huge effort to move away from the EU and using our own ideas for our own benefit.

I must admit op, I really can't see the link of playing games just because it's British? Wouldn't they rather play games with the Russian jab if that was the motivation?

I've seen few actions that show me the eu cares about its people, I've only witnessed the opposite and infact right now whatever the motivation...politicos or not I see the same shambles I've always seen

spring how else do you explain the fact that Merkel didn’t want to use it at all then lots of EU countries jumped on the blood clot bandwagon when there was no rationale for either decision

What was the motivation for both of those things?

Syringes are not made in the UK
Vaccine vials are not made in the UK
Vaccines are not made in the UK
The research teams that design the vaccines are international
The research teams in charge of testing are international

@Mintjulia

They certainly aren't crowning themselves in glory.

This

@ListeningQuietly

Syringes are not made in the UK Vaccine vials are not made in the UK Vaccines are not made in the UK The research teams that design the vaccines are international The research teams in charge of testing are international

So what?

And not even all of that is true

@ListeningQuietly

Syringes are not made in the UK Vaccine vials are not made in the UK Vaccines are not made in the UK The research teams that design the vaccines are international The research teams in charge of testing are international

Right. But that doesn’t negate a lot of really good skilful work by people in the UK. We can do so much more. And we are.

I am usually a massive political cynic. But I really see this vaccine program as an incredibly useful reminder of what Britain can do. I can see we are building on that. It’s a return to a sense of ambition and hope. It’s great.