Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

SiL wants to live with us 2 months a year

356 replies

ploomo · 19/03/2021 10:26

Sorry this is so long, there's quite a lot of detail required to avoid drip-feeding.

My DH's sister is 55, my DH is 59. She worked for the police in an administrative capacity for many years and was early-retired/ made redundant (she's never told us which) at 50. She married young and had a child, but they split up by the time she was 30 and she's been on her own since then. Her son moved to Ireland years ago and has a family there. After leaving the police service she was diagnosed as being high-functioning ASD, which didn't come as a huge surprise to anyone.

When she received her redundancy/ retirement money she sold the house she'd lived in for years and bought a beautiful-looking 'lodge' on a holiday park site. It has a really stunning sea view. We could see the attraction, but not as a main home. We, and everyone else who was aware of her plan, pointed out that she wasn't allowed to live there all year round and has to vacate in January and February each year. We also pointed out that the contract stipulated that after 20 years she'd need to replace the lodge with another. The site fees add up to nearly £6000 a year and she had another decade to go before her state pension kicked in. She said she'd had years of work and compromise and for once she wanted to treat herself to something special. She said she'd done a deal with the site owner and he'd allow her to live there all year round, despite the regulations.

She moved in and it was heaven for a while but within a few months she'd fallen out with the site owner and also with several other lodge owners who'd come down at the weekends with their children who ran around and made noise. That first year she came to stay with us for new year and didn't go home till early March. DH and I both work and we're not hard-up so we just gritted our teeth and coped. DH made it clear that she needed to make alternative arrangements for the next year.

The next year she went to Australia for two months and had the holiday of a lifetime. The year after that she stayed with her son and his family in Ireland for a month and then in Air BnBs in southern Spain. The cost of all this was clearly getting out of hand and last summer she decided she needed a long-term solution and decided to buy a camper van to live in over the winter. She's spent nearly £60,000 on a brand new bespoke VW camper van done out to her own design. It's been resprayed her favourite colour, it's got leather seats in her favourite colour, the worktops are her favourite colour — but it's tiny and she needs to have an electricity supply so that she can use the microwave and the heater.

In late December she packed the stuff she'd need to get through the winter and went off in the van to park up in the yard of a friend who owns a farm. We're not sure what happened, but after a fortnight she left there and has been staying in the van outside various peoples' houses. She came to us during the cold spell in February and we ran an electric cable out to the van so she could have the heater on in it 24/7. She came in to use our loo and bathroom and washing machine each day and ended up just living with us during the day and sleeping in the van at night. It's as if Covid regulations don't exist for her. At the end of February the site owner contacted everyone who owns a lodge to say that because of Covid the site wouldn't be open until after Easter, so it looks as if she'll be around for another few weeks.

A couple of days ago she came up with a new solution to the problem. She wants us to convert our garage into a studio flat so that she can come and live here in the winter, and so that she has a fall-back in a few years if she can't afford to keep the lodge. My DH talked to her and we suspect she's blown all the money she got from the sale of the house and her savings and is now struggling.

I say she needs to get a job and work until her state pension kicks in but she won't hear that. Nor will she think of selling the camper van. We've suggested she rents out her lodge for £1000 a week from Easter to September and lives in the van and she assumed we were joking. She doesn't have visitors, it's her private paradise, she'd never dream of renting it out and she'd very offended we'd suggest it.

I realise there's nothing we can do. She's made her decisions and has to live with them. What I'd like to hear are the experiences of others with family members who live in static homes or similar situations, and those with experience of relatives who anticipate that they'll be looked after by family. Where do you draw the boundaries? My DH is worried sick about her. I think there's a strong likelihood that he'll start preparing to convert the garage and utility into a studio flat for her and I can see her ending up living with us permanently, which isn't something either of us want!

OP posts:
AmaryllisNightAndDay · 19/03/2021 13:44

My DH is worried sick about her. I think there's a strong likelihood that he'll start preparing to convert the garage and utility into a studio flat for her and I can see her ending up living with us permanently, which isn't something either of us want!

The more your Dh gives way the more helpless and dependent on him his sister will become. At 50 she is still capable of renting a room and earning her own money.

those with experience of relatives who anticipate that they'll be looked after by family. Where do you draw the boundaries?

Your SiL doesn't seem to understand normal boundaries, or reciprocity. There is only what you and her brother will allow her to do, and what you wont allow. She will have an idea in her head and pursue it. She may ask and demand and demand and ask. She may get upset at not getting what she wants and what she thinks she needs and what she thinks she is entitled to. If you try to give her reasons why it wont work she will make crazy suggestions about how it could work. Like she did about the holiday park. So your boundaries need to be ironclad and immovable and joint with DH. She may never understand why she can't have what she wants. But she will understand that she can't have it if you both stand firm.

And then she will look for other solutions. People with autism tend to focus on just one "solution" at a time. And if that is how she works them it is only if she doesn't get what she wants from her family, that she will then be able to consider other ways to get by.

Her solutions may not be the solutions that you would choose for her. Balancing alternatives and thinking ahead are not strengths your SiL has, instead she jumps in and goes to an extreme. She may burn through all the money she has. She may intimidate and offend people who would otherwise help her. She may move in and out of many places. But you can't let her destroy your lives. If she upset the people in the holiday park just think how wretched she could make life for you and your DH.

Isn't this more the behaviour of a narcissist

Not narcissists alone. Rigid thinking can also lead to the need to demand things from other people (because they are your current solution and you are totally focussed on it) and to control their lives (because you depend on them for your needs and you can't adapt to their needs)

she knows fine well that her only chance is to make close relatives feel guilty enough to take her in

If she has autism then no, she probably doesn't know that. But if she wants and expects to be taken in then she may be intesnely upset and disappointed at not getting that, and close relatives will feel guilty, and unfortunately the guilt may make them give in.

An income would give her more options than she has now.

By the sound of her behaviour so far, options are the last thing she wants. Imagine only being able to think about one option at a time. "I have a problem. Living with my brother is a solution. I must live with my brother! He wont let it happen! How terrible! I am upset and angry! How can he be so selfish not to solve my problem! It wont happen. Oh. What else can I do? Here is another solution. I must take that solution. I must make it happen."

And repeat.

So, I like ItsAllComingBackToMeNow's idea of saving up for a safety net instead.

Flowers
HeadNorth · 19/03/2021 13:51

She will have a decent pension from the police and at 50 with a solid work record she can work at least part time to supplement this. She could sell her lodge or her campervan. She is not your responsibility and I suspect if you create a studio flat for her it could destroy your marriage as you will have her for the rest of your lives.

You have to make it very clear that you will not take responsibility for her. Really, your obligations ends there. You do not owe her a place to live and you certainly shouldn't sacrifice your future happiness for her. You know she will fall out with you and moan no matter what you do, so you may as well do what is best for you.

caringcarer · 19/03/2021 13:52

She is an adult and needs to get s job and sort herself out. Say no now before she gets old as well as needy.

Aloethere · 19/03/2021 13:54

I think your dh and her son and you if you want to be involved need to help her plan out the next x years of her life. Dh has asd and cannot future plan at all, the finances in our relationship are also up to me as he lacks that ability to plan so I understand why she may struggle.

I wouldn't be afraid of being blunt and saying no you cannot stay here, an asd relative of dhs was all set to move into another relatives house and stay there forever, expecting that when they died it would be left to them. None of this was ever going to happen but to them it seemed an easy, logical solution, the relative had space and sure after they died they wouldn't need it so job done. They had to be really, really blunt because the asd relative just didn't get it otherwise. The asd relative needed other people to plan things out for them, you are going to live here, your budget for the week is x, your savings are x otherwise it all spiralled and they were nearly made homeless.

I would sit her down make it clear that she cannot stay, then ask her what she wants, she doesn't want to work ok then, how much money does she have now, how much will she have to each month on benefits or whatever and try and make a plan that will best fit what she wants. It is a heck of a lot of work, the asd relative I mentioned wanted x,y,z but their budget barely stretched to x, it was very difficult to get it all to sink in but they seem happy and settled now.

LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee · 19/03/2021 13:58

People with autism tend to focus on just one "solution" at a time
Very good point, and true for my (very limited) experience (sample of 2). But they also have a very logical mind and if you show them very clearly that their plan can’t work they will accept it (after a while).

mam0918 · 19/03/2021 13:58

Not your circus, not your money even if you share blood.

Honestly she sounds like a selfish user and thats nothing to do with high functioning ASD she has choose to abuse her families kindness for her own gain.

Washimal · 19/03/2021 13:58

Make it clear to dh if she turns up you will be leaving in her custom made VW....

This. There are very few things my DH could do that would make me actually go through with leaving him, but this is definitely one of them.

Because of your SIL's ASD she is going to need support to sort this mess out, but you also need to be very clear. You will also need to be firm because you've gotten yourselves into a situation where she's already living with you (albeit sleeping in her van at night) and is clearly very comfortable. I would tell your SIL in very clear, simple terms that living with you is not an option, either in your home or your garage. Tell her that you will help her to find another solution. Present her with a written list of options (not too many or it will be overwhelming) such as "rent out the lodge" or "sell the van and the lodge and get a flat". Tell her that she needs to choose one and whichever she chooses, you will help her to do it. Do not get into protracted discussions or negotiations. These are the options, she needs to choose one because the current arrangement cannot continue and her idea to convert the garage is not going to happen.

If your DH won't do the above then he is basically accepting that your SIL is going to live with you forever, because there's no way it will be 2 months of the year in reality. I know that's not something I could tolerate but it's up to you, OP.

mam0918 · 19/03/2021 14:00

people saying she has autism - she is high functioning, she held a job, paid bills, bought a house, survived fine and raised a family for 30 years... she CHOOSE to suddenly do this, its not that she incapable.

rosiejaune · 19/03/2021 14:01

@FishWithoutABike

While YANBU the situation in reality is not going to get better by refusing to accommodate her. It highly likely because of her ASC diagnosis she struggles with executive functioning. So future planning, organising multiple aspects of living and money management will all be affected. She didn't choose to find these things difficult and you DH didn’t choose his family. But that’s the situation. He loves her and feels responsible for her because he’s a good man. I would have a serious sit down. Be very frank and make lists of different options. Personally I think you should attempt to encourage her to sell her lodge and/or van now and move in to the garage. Show her how the cost will add up over the years and give her lots of time to come round to the idea. Failing that be there and support your DH with what he feels is best.
Yes, this.

You are not being unreasonable to not want her living with you, but you are being unreasonable to assume she is able to do better without support.

Are you going to support her in some way (whether that is letting her live there or some other way), or just resent her for her neurology?

rosiejaune · 19/03/2021 14:05

@mam0918

people saying she has autism - she is high functioning, she held a job, paid bills, bought a house, survived fine and raised a family for 30 years... she CHOOSE to suddenly do this, its not that she incapable.
This is why high functioning terminology is inaccurate and not useful.

People can be capable of some things but not others.

There are plenty of autistic people who work but struggle with other aspects of life organisation, especially budgeting.

You might not be able to tell what they have issues with until it starts to affect your life (as in this case), but there will be plenty of barriers for them.

People might think I was independent from the outside (I went to uni and have a child), but I'm not. I can't do some things (have only worked for 2 years of my adult life, and only one of those was full time) and need support with others (e.g. my partner helps with budgeting).

I'm intelligent in an academic sense, but that doesn't help with real life skills, even if I might struggle along without help and therefore appear fine to others who don't see my issues.

LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee · 19/03/2021 14:14

@Lacucuracha

There's no such thing as 'high functioning autism' in reality

I'm not an expert, but there are threads on MN where people with high functioning autism have had successful careers and a home.

Absolutely. I say I have high functioning autism in the sense that my autism doesn't prevent me from functionning in our society. There is nothing that I either can't do or requires an unreasonable amount of effort.

So for ex making small talk is something that is quite difficult for me but not to a point that I will avoid a situation when I will have to do it.
Same for noise, lots of noise feels like an aggression to me but it never reaches the point where I have to leave the situation.
etc

saraclara · 19/03/2021 14:21

Please don't do this, OP (or let your husband do it). His sister will destroy your relationship if she has a place in your home.

I have a close relative whose partner has a sibling with a mental illness that makes her exceptionally vulnerable. Their elderly mother picks up the slack with her at the moment, with some help from my relative's DP. But when their DM is gone, I'm really concerned that my relative will end up having their life restricted by their partner feeling obliged to be the DSis's carer.

CharityDingle · 19/03/2021 14:22

@IrmaFayLear

I remember a thread from some years ago where an OP in the US had in-laws who had blown everything on one of those mega-RVs in which they planned to travel round, but wanted to winter in the OP's house in an annexe built at OP's expense.

I don't know what the outcome was, but it is very difficult when one half of a couple has a "problem" relation for whom they feel responsibility, and the other feels they are a bit of a CF.

I suspect that the sil knows that asking for a studio conversion is unreasonable, so the logical next step is moving in long-term or permanently into OP's house.

Really OP and dh need to present a united front and decide what works for both of them before tackling sil's expectations.

I remember either that or a similar thread. The OP's parents-in-law basically moved themselves in to the OP's basement. Supposedly for a certain period of time, next thing they were settling in for good.

The OP had to, eventually, have it out with them, that this was not a long term/ permanent arrangement, her husband said nothing when the time came even though they both agreed it wasn't a runner. The PIL took great offence, and I presume they moved out.

OP, you seem almost resigned to this, that your husband will be arriving next thing with plans, and employing builders. This will not be temporary, if you go ahead with converting part of your house. Your SIL will be there for good. Tbh, something like this could break your marriage.

You and your husband need to talk this out and you need to be clear to him, this is not happening. He can support your SIL, in other ways, in finding something suitable but this cannot happen, and he needs to make that clear to her.

Beautiful3 · 19/03/2021 14:22

I would not consider having her stay again. I would pretend to go away on holiday every time she asked. Absolutely do not convert your garage into a studio!!! You're asking for trouble. She needs to use her camper van or sell it to fund holidays. She could camp for 2 months in the summer and stay in her chalet for the other months. She needs to plan how shes going to live. Running a cable to her can must be costing you! Running her heating and electronics will not be cheap! You need to talk to your husband and set some boundaries. If it were me, I'd say no to living with you at all.

IwishIwasontheN17 · 19/03/2021 14:24

@RandomMess

Isn't property in Ireland much cheaper? She could sell up and buy outright there as an option?
In general, no, it’s not cheaper.
Mummyoflittledragon · 19/03/2021 14:25

@C3SC

she won't be a lodger because no one who's not related to her will tolerate her behaviour she knows fine well that her only chance is to make close relatives feel guilty enough to take her in and then she can get in a position where they can't throw her out because she's got nowhere else to go
Did you read that link? Please stop with the judgement of neurodiverse people. Op may feel guilty because of her sil’s behaviour. But her behaviour is a function of her autism. Not a function of a manipulative personality.
HeadNorth · 19/03/2021 14:31

But her behaviour is a function of her autism. Not a function of a manipulative personality.

How do you know it isn't both? She sounds like a cheeky fucker to me, reagrdless of diagnosis. She has got to 50 without the OP having to prop her up - no need to step in now or they'll be stuck with her forever.

Shnuffles · 19/03/2021 14:41

Ok, she has autism, but she managed to hold down a normal job for years, and plenty of people who don't have autism make crappy decisions, with finances and everything else under the sun. I wouldn't let her diagnosis excuse her choices. She's capable of making better ones, especially with family to ask for advice.

You and your husband have to discuss this openly and honestly. Don't give him the chance to pretend that you're okay with her living with you for the long term. Obviously he doesn't want to see his sister suffer, but I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice the peace of my home for someone who won't make some difficult decisions and take care of their own needs. She's capable of doing it. She's still young and healthy enough to work, and if the lodge isn't working out, she'll have to rent or sell it. If that makes her sad or angry, that's just too bad.

Lots of people don't get to live their dream, and even for those who do, it only lasts for a certain amount of time. Dream-living doesn't go on forever, and it's time she admits that to herself.

NotAPanda · 19/03/2021 14:42

People with ASD don't read nuance.
Once being told in direct terms they are quite capable of getting it.
Give your SIL a firm no and a list of choices as pp have mentioned.
Tell her she has to take one of the choices or she's on her own.

TabithaTeacake · 19/03/2021 14:44

Know a couple ( through a hobby we have ) Sold their house bought a 2nd hand
lodge already on a site. Also got a brand new camper van ( must be what people do ) . First year took themselves off to stay in Cornwall as they have very good friends that live there - don't know how that went. 2nd year went off to South of France, they say they had a nice time. 3rd year stayed in Airbnbs , and haven't seen them as not doing hobby due to covid.
It seems like people who have lodges become pain in asses when they need somewhere else to decamp out too !

CharityDingle · 19/03/2021 14:46

@Beautiful3

I would not consider having her stay again. I would pretend to go away on holiday every time she asked. Absolutely do not convert your garage into a studio!!! You're asking for trouble. She needs to use her camper van or sell it to fund holidays. She could camp for 2 months in the summer and stay in her chalet for the other months. She needs to plan how shes going to live. Running a cable to her can must be costing you! Running her heating and electronics will not be cheap! You need to talk to your husband and set some boundaries. If it were me, I'd say no to living with you at all.
I would guess that she would think that was fine and that she could stay in their house while they are away.
Cocomarine · 19/03/2021 14:49

@Beautiful3 I doubt the SIL can just decide to stay in the van for summer months. The Jan-Feb closure will site-wide, it’s common for the site to decide the closure period, and it’s usually winter but after Xmas, when most owners who have it as a second home least want to be there.

1forAll74 · 19/03/2021 14:52

I would tell her that she has to go it alone now, and to stop using people from now on..She has in fact, had a great time over the years, choosing to spend money, and been able to travel and go to some nice places all over. Lots of people would have liked her kind of lifestyle I am sure..

If she doesn't like any of the suggestions that you make to her, re her housing predicament, then she will have to lump it,and do her own thing.

partyatthepalace · 19/03/2021 14:58

@TheGracefulwhale

Quite a simple "no, I'm not converting my garage to save your bacon after you've blown your fortune. No I'm not living through building work and upheaval and paying for the privilege just for you to decide when you come and go. And no, you don't get to invite yourself to live with us. Have a nice day".

Honestly, this woman is in her 50's. She needs to live with her decisions.

This, and repeat your suggestions of what she does need to do.

She's made some stupid decisions, but she's probably young enough to sort them out if she goes back to work for a few years and rents the lodge.

Be polite - but not too kind - for a own sake she needs to really hear that she needs to sort this out.

Mummyoflittledragon · 19/03/2021 15:03

HeadNorth
Flawed logic can seem like cf. I said before my fil is undiagnosed but has many traits.

His flawed logic lead to him drastically under feed his dog. It was a big battle to get him to understand that the dog was starving and information on the packet was only a guide.

When he got the dog, we agreed how much to feed it dog. The amount required I lived close enough to monitor things at the time. Then he switched to senior (same brand) and almost halved the amount.... because the packet said.

The fight for him to see reason was incredibly difficult. He couldn’t see his dog was emaciated even when I showed him the protruding ribs, hips and skull and kept arguing the packet said. So the dog was fine. It certainly wasn’t deliberate and I suppose the vet thought the dog was just emaciated through age. Fil loved the dog btw.

When it died I told dh under no circumstances was he to facilitate him to get another. We live in a different country and my poor health meant the underfeeding had been happening for a long time as I can’t visit much. He’d only got the dog under my supervision and my health plus our circumstances means I cannot supervise.

Dh wouldn’t notice either (traits) and also thought I was overreacting. So I had a massive fight and a screaming match with him. Another story....