SiL wants to live with us 2 months a year

[ploomo]

Sorry this is so long, there's quite a lot of detail required to avoid drip-feeding.

My DH's sister is 55, my DH is 59. She worked for the police in an administrative capacity for many years and was early-retired/ made redundant (she's never told us which) at 50. She married young and had a child, but they split up by the time she was 30 and she's been on her own since then. Her son moved to Ireland years ago and has a family there. After leaving the police service she was diagnosed as being high-functioning ASD, which didn't come as a huge surprise to anyone.

When she received her redundancy/ retirement money she sold the house she'd lived in for years and bought a beautiful-looking 'lodge' on a holiday park site. It has a really stunning sea view. We could see the attraction, but not as a main home. We, and everyone else who was aware of her plan, pointed out that she wasn't allowed to live there all year round and has to vacate in January and February each year. We also pointed out that the contract stipulated that after 20 years she'd need to replace the lodge with another. The site fees add up to nearly £6000 a year and she had another decade to go before her state pension kicked in. She said she'd had years of work and compromise and for once she wanted to treat herself to something special. She said she'd done a deal with the site owner and he'd allow her to live there all year round, despite the regulations.

She moved in and it was heaven for a while but within a few months she'd fallen out with the site owner and also with several other lodge owners who'd come down at the weekends with their children who ran around and made noise. That first year she came to stay with us for new year and didn't go home till early March. DH and I both work and we're not hard-up so we just gritted our teeth and coped. DH made it clear that she needed to make alternative arrangements for the next year.

The next year she went to Australia for two months and had the holiday of a lifetime. The year after that she stayed with her son and his family in Ireland for a month and then in Air BnBs in southern Spain. The cost of all this was clearly getting out of hand and last summer she decided she needed a long-term solution and decided to buy a camper van to live in over the winter. She's spent nearly £60,000 on a brand new bespoke VW camper van done out to her own design. It's been resprayed her favourite colour, it's got leather seats in her favourite colour, the worktops are her favourite colour — but it's tiny and she needs to have an electricity supply so that she can use the microwave and the heater.

In late December she packed the stuff she'd need to get through the winter and went off in the van to park up in the yard of a friend who owns a farm. We're not sure what happened, but after a fortnight she left there and has been staying in the van outside various peoples' houses. She came to us during the cold spell in February and we ran an electric cable out to the van so she could have the heater on in it 24/7. She came in to use our loo and bathroom and washing machine each day and ended up just living with us during the day and sleeping in the van at night. It's as if Covid regulations don't exist for her. At the end of February the site owner contacted everyone who owns a lodge to say that because of Covid the site wouldn't be open until after Easter, so it looks as if she'll be around for another few weeks.

A couple of days ago she came up with a new solution to the problem. She wants us to convert our garage into a studio flat so that she can come and live here in the winter, and so that she has a fall-back in a few years if she can't afford to keep the lodge. My DH talked to her and we suspect she's blown all the money she got from the sale of the house and her savings and is now struggling.

I say she needs to get a job and work until her state pension kicks in but she won't hear that. Nor will she think of selling the camper van. We've suggested she rents out her lodge for £1000 a week from Easter to September and lives in the van and she assumed we were joking. She doesn't have visitors, it's her private paradise, she'd never dream of renting it out and she'd very offended we'd suggest it.

I realise there's nothing we can do. She's made her decisions and has to live with them. What I'd like to hear are the experiences of others with family members who live in static homes or similar situations, and those with experience of relatives who anticipate that they'll be looked after by family. Where do you draw the boundaries? My DH is worried sick about her. I think there's a strong likelihood that he'll start preparing to convert the garage and utility into a studio flat for her and I can see her ending up living with us permanently, which isn't something either of us want!

However 'high functioning' she is her ASD means her thought processes and decision making are very very different to someone neurotypical (mother of 'high functioning' ASD adult child speaking).

You do need to say No, but she is not a problem that's going to disappear so I would recommend reading up everything you can on female adult ASD and learn how to communicate with her in ways she can understand and respond to.

FWIW she can legally park her van in Scotland more easily than in England, at beautiful loch-side locations, so why not suggest she takes a jaunt there. If she's hard up she needs to earn or sell one of her properties.

She won't have electricity to run the heater or water, though, so she probably won't like that. Sounds like she also doesn't want to pay for a hook up.

@Blueberries0112

They started placing Asperger’s as autism now. A lot these people are high functioning.

That's because of the wrong 'high functioning' label being associated with Aspergers. There is no actual diagnosis of 'high functioning', as you just confuse a higher IQ as being the same as functionality (or the ability to 'figure it out' as much as a neuro typical person). It's not the same thing as all. Plenty of people with 'high functioning' autism struggle with basic or essential parts of life. Yes many 'mask' but it leads to a lot of mental distressed, and it's unfair for people to expect those with 'higher functioning autism' just to get on with it just because they 'present' more typically than those with lower IQs along with functionality.

Someone like this will literally and actually dominate someone else's entire life if allowed
Isn't this more the behaviour of a narcissist 🤔

No. I seen this behavior all the time when there is too many adults in the house. They have a opinion and they think they can do it better

Surely we are all on the spectrum? Who on this earth is 100% absolutely fully-functioning normal all the time? If there is such a person, I haven't met them.

I think the sil needs support, but no one should have to lie down on the ground and let someone else walk all over them because of another's needs. Adjustments, yes. Sympathy, of course. Having to do some things through gritted teeth, yes, that has to be done on occasion. But seriously compromising your own life and marriage to fit in with someone's lifestyle choices is a step too far.

@C3SC

Someone like this will literally and actually dominate someone else's entire life if allowed Isn't this more the behaviour of a narcissist 🤔

No . Autism can be and is often quite a selfish condition because the person has problems seeing outside the box, so to speak, putting themselves in other peoples' shoes or conceiving of a view other than their own. Also said problems with executive functioning. As a result they can quite often dominate other people with overbearing behaviour and stubbornness. No, not their fault, but at the same time you need to be very careful how you deal with a relative whose condition manifests itself in this way.

It can be heart-breaking. We can never really indulge our son in any way because then he latches onto this and expects/demands it permanently and can have quite violent meltdowns when it's not forthcoming again.

But you have to be very clear and a united front.

The OP and her h have already demonstrated soft touch behaviour. She can sense this and hence, the demands have increased. She was supposed to stay for New Year's and they passively let her stay till March. She was supposed to be parked up on their drive but has effectively moved into their home already. So now she of course in her way of thinking has thought, 'Great! They can convert their home and then I can just come here and live whenever I want!'

My understanding is that if she does this, your house is the property that will be regarded as her sole and main residence. As she cannot use the holiday park in this way. So she would be regarded as a resident on your Council Tax charge so whilst not liable, she would affect the number of people living there of circumstances changed and you otherwise qualified for a discount. I believe any finance, loans, bank accounts ect would also be registered to your address.

This is not your responsiblity. From what you say it has never occurred to this woman that she needs to fend for herself. I would say the parenting she got also affects this. Your DH seems to think he's responsible for her welfare.
She has proven that ASD or not, that she is capable of having a job, getting into a relationship, rearing a child, buying a house, going on holidays etc. You and/or your DH are infantilising her and keeping her a child.
You have to stand your ground. Tell your DH you will leave if she comes to live there. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind she will be there permanently if she moves in.
If she has fallen out with everyone there is NO DOUBT that she will fall out with your and DH. She will start treating your house like her own and complaining about issues there. Because in her mind, your house is her house because DH is 'family' she is entitled and he is 'responsible' for her as much as a father would be.
By all means help her to buy a smaller house in a neighbouring town but do not have her in close proximity to you.
You need boundaries and more boundaries and that includes location to physically make it clear to her that she is separate. Because somewhere in her head she thinks she's still a child in a family and that she can just join your family as another 'child'.
It's a pattern with these adult 'children'.
They start reducing their responsibilities as they get older and they always seem to end up relying on someone's favour, staying in someone's house for free.
Encourage her independence and a plan for her future that has her completely independent. Insist on it.
She has a dynamic that uses guilt and places her as the helpless victim of circumstances. She is not. She is a grown woman who has made Choices.

I think a hard clear boundary would be helpful for her. Not suggestions or hints or a wishy-washy "I don't think that's a good idea". I would make it general rather than personal. "I like my privacy and to feel comfortable in my own home, so nobody at all will be staying with us, either in the house or on the property. The only exception will be a short visit of no more than a week at our invitation. You need to make plans for your future that don't rely on using our home. We would be happy to give you advice on your planning as much as we are able."

My experience of ASD (with teen DS) is the he is not good at long term planning or at having a plan B and plan C if plan A doesn't work out. So, faced with an issue, he will pick the easiest short-term fix and not want to move from that path just because it's inconvenient for someone else. I have to tell him that X will not happen at all because it relies on me to do all the work and I won't do that, and he needs make more realistic plans. Then I offer a few suggestions of more workable plans.

Surely we are all on the spectrum?

I can 100% assure you that surely, no, we are not 'all on the spectrum'.

But I agree, the OP is entitled to her own 'private paradise' and it's a bad idea to lie down and become a welcome mat.

The OP needs to broach this with her h now and be a united front or decide if she wants to have her SIL living with them for the rest of her life, because that is what is coming.

Better to have the possibly unpleasant conversation now than let things fester. Easier for your SIL to have to face realities at 55 than say at 65, for example.

OP

It is likely that your DH won’t want to have a clear “no” conversation with her.

If he does still it’s very likely that he’ll be swayed.

You need to think about what you would do in that case, and think of the long term.

Would you be happy living the rest of your life with your SIL?

If not a prospect you want to put up with I would see a solicitor, and explain that to your DH.
The corollary of that funnily enough being that in case of divorce the house would need to be sold anyway so getting rid of the issue!

It would be a no from me.

What if you wanted move/downsize yourselves? How would that work if she was living with you?

Hell would freeze over before I would agree to this.

Christ there's a lot of ignorance on this thread.

The OP's SIL has made 'choices' based on what is best for her at that moment in time. It sounds like she is, like many autistic people, incapable of considering the longterm implications of her decisions.

That's why I urge you to take her to a financial adviser to help her manage her finances. And yes, you have to be absolutely firm and say that moving in with you is not an option available to her. In her head, she has a problem and this is an ideal solution. It is probably extremely difficult for her to understand that you may not want that unless you spell it out to her very clearly.

Firm boundaries, do not deviate. But if you don't sort this out now, you will be forever picking up the pieces of her poor decision making and inability to consider long term consequences.

It's not that she won't, she can't.

@ploomo

I agree with @BrumBoo. She has additional needs that make her vulnerable & quite probably not able to sort this out herself. Unfortunately it's difficult when you don't have any control over her decisions/finances.

I would say to your DH that you will help her get it sorted out & support him to do the same, but she will NOT be living with you in ANY way (it's no more your responsibility than it is her Sons)

One of you (whoever gets on with her the most) needs to tell her it's gone to have a proper conversation. Tell her she cannot move in with you, in any capacity, but that if she's willing to show you her agreements/finances, you will help her to work everything out, but if she's not willing to do that, there's nothing you can do to help

Be very clear that if she doesn't allow you to help now, she will have to go to the council/charity/man in the moon to get accommodation sorted out, because you will not be allowing her to move in with your family. Into your sanctuary!

Good luck 💐

@Lacucuracha

The SIL really needs support. That doesn't have to look like her moving in but have some fucking empathy, people.

But that support should be helping her to make wise choices for her future security, not effectively moving her in.

Let's not throw one woman (OP) under a bus, to help another. It's funny how the son gets to walk away from all this.

Who do you think would have to care for SIL if she got sick? It won't be DH, it will be OP.

Yes, that's why I said in the bit you quoted, "that doesn't have to look like her moving in"

The empathy comment was directed to people calling the SIL stupid and entitled, and also those blaming the OP for not standing up to her or just saying "fuck no".

I can understand your DH wanting to make sure she is ok and not leaving her in the lurch. I wouldn't leave my sibling in a difficult position even if it was their own doing and they would help me out.
The question is what to do. The garage as an annex is a bad idea because it limits your life choices. Could she sell the chalet? If it fairly new with good views it will probably sell easily and for a good price. Would she want a sea view in a new property? If she's old enough she could get a McCarthy Stone type place or just somewhere seaside and cheaper e.g parts of cumbria and Dumfries and Galloway. If she wants to live close by to you she would have to have a smaller house. Would you purchase a small buy to let and rent it out to her?
Go through all the options with your husband and present her with the best options for you

No hmm. Autism can be and is often quite a selfish condition because the person has problems seeing outside the box, so to speak, putting themselves in other peoples' shoes or conceiving of a view other than their own. Also said problems with executive functioning. As a result they can quite often dominate other people with overbearing behaviour and stubbornness. No, not their fault, but at the same time you need to be very careful how you deal with a relative whose condition manifests itself in this way
This is exactly the same as a narcissist I still can't see what the difference is 🤷🏼‍♀️

This is exactly the same as a narcissist I still can't see what the difference is 🤷🏼‍♀️

Autism Spectral Condition is a condition of neurodiversity, in the brain. It is not a personality disorder or a psychiatric condition. Fucking Google it! It's patently obvious what the differences are with a Google search alone. Beyond ignorant to conflate it with NPD. FFS.

🤷🏼‍♀️

If the worst comes to the worst, you can sell the film rights.

@Love51

It's really hard as I don't think your husband would be happy about his sister ending up homeless and being accommodated by the council in a B&B but the situation is of her own making. My defenses went up when you said she'd "fallen out" with the site owner. I don't trust people who "fall out" with others not to be emotionally manipulative.

Oh and the irony of not having anyone stay at her home but she wants to stay at yours...!

But this person has ASD. I understand that her living with SIL is a no brainier but she needs some form of support with her finances. Some people with ASD can come across as difficult but this could be because of problems with social communication and not being able to “read” people or understand subtle social nuances. I would try, no matter how difficult or uncomfortable, to have a straightforward conversation with it also written down, explaining everything in maybe bullet points or a visual mind map.

What are the key differences though, isn't a person with a psychiatric condition or a personality disorder also neurodiverse because it's all about neurones and the brain?
what is the specific test that tells you it's autism rather than a psychiatric or personality disorder?

I wouldn’t consider a ‘park’ house as I think there are all sorts of complications with them regarding renewal of the chalets etc.

I have recently been looking at what my MiL can move to, as her house is now just too big. She is in her 70s, doesn’t need care but wants a quiet, peaceful home as she is used to being surrounded by beautiful, large gardens.

I would suggest you look at flats for the over 55s. Not the Macarthy and Stone type, but there are others around (I live in a very small market town and we have four developments of them here). They do have relatively high service charges, but the are very cheap to purchase. They also tend to have large room sizes. A small available to all ages 1 bed flat here would be 180k plus. E.g. A larger square footage 1 bed flat within the over 55s developments sell for 100k ish. They may need a bit of a cosmetic upgrade, but they always have lovely gardens, reserved parking, peace and quiet. No maintenance costs (factored into the service charge) and they are future proofed (lift, wider doorways etc). Easy lock up and leave if your SiL wants to go travelling in her camper van.

I have several friends who’s parents have moved into these and are very happy.

@C3SC

What are the key differences though, isn't a person with a psychiatric condition or a personality disorder also neurodiverse because it's all about neurones and the brain? what is the specific test that tells you it's autism rather than a psychiatric or personality disorder?

Many differences. NPD is not ASC . It's really not that hard to see that. There is a whole process for diagnosing both conditions by medical and other professionals - ASC can also have a strong genetic/inherited link. Dear god, Google it.