To quit my job but hope they convince me to stay?

[Ladderclimber]

Is there an acceptable way to go about this?

I've been offered a job that is more money, working from home and a better job title.

I love my current company. They're amazing to work for and it's a safe job and the work is interesting. But I should be on a more senior job title for the work I'm doing and I really want to work fully from home. They've said that nobody will be working from home after Covid (blended model planned). I don't mind going into the office ad hoc but I don't want to do set days a week as my role can be done fully from home (as evidenced by the past year and new job!)

I know that they wouldn't want me to leave as it was hard to recruit me as I have very niche skills (I got recruited fast when I went sniffing around). I don't mind if they don't match the salary I've been offered, it's the title (that matches what I do better) and the home working.

They might just accept my resignation, which is fine, but is there a way to not seem like a knob while also saying 'I quit but I really want to stay if you'll give in to my demands?' To be fair, I've never asked them for what I want, but I don't think they'd want to set a post-covid precedent of fully home working just based on me asking, as they've been really clear that nobody will be.

I haven't accepted the job I've been offered but will have to soon. They haven't interviewed anyone else so nobody else in the wings waiting.

YABU: Quit if you want to quit but don't try to negotiate
YANBU: It's fine to use another job offer to negotiate

I'm an ex-recruiter and we always advised people not to accept a counter-offer. Do you really want to threaten your employer that you'll leave unless you get what you want? This could have a serious impact on your relationship. And statistics actually show that approx 80% of people who accept a counter-offer are gone within 12 months of accepting. And they don't necessarily leave of their own accord.

The smart thing to do is discuss your concerns with your employer BEFORE job hunting rather than after. Then you start your job search knowing where to stand.

And yes, the company who jumped through hoops with you and offered you a job with them will most likely be mightily pissed off when you reject their offer. They may well close their doors to you forever. I know plenty of companies who will not consider someone who has previously rejected an offer from them unless their was a very good reason for the rejection (being pissed off with your current employer and wanting to use another company to get leverage with your current employer does not count as a good reason).

If you don't believe me, read these:

www.linkedin.com/pulse/10-reasons-why-you-should-never-accept-counter-offer-when-wendy-phan/

www.forbes.com/sites/lisaquast/2014/07/07/why-you-should-never-accept-a-counter-offer-when-you-resign/?sh=5fb836817314

I think lots of companies make exceptions that don't become precedents.

Reality means that some positions are harder to fill than others.

Companies, even huge multinationals adjust quickly when it is their own interest locally.

Asking for a counter offer implies you are happy to stay, make sure you really are.

I'm also slightly worried that even if they agree they'll be annoyed that I've kind of strong-armed them...

Would a man worry about this kind of thing?

Ask your current employer for everything you want (especially the title, i totally get where you're coming from there) maybe even a bit more than you want so you could concede on some things. And if they say no? Take the new offer and don't look back.
When it comes to exit interview you can say that they need to work on their retaining skills, that your niche job would be perfect for WFH without impacting anyone else, and thank you for the opportunities and goodbye.

Don't look back either way.

I'm an ex-recruiter and we always advised people not to accept a counter-offer

Well obviously - you would hardly advise someone to remain in their old job, as that would mean you wouldn't get your fee!

The op isn't suggesting resigning because she hates the job then accepting a higher salary offer out of the blue, as your links suggest. Rather, she is coming from the opposite situation of really wanting to stay apart from a couple of fairly minor issues.

Sometimes you don't realise what you could be getting from a job until you look around a little.

OP I would decide in advance exactly what you are willing to stay for, if you would definitely leave if they insist on office attendance one day a week for example. That way you won't accidentally agree to something you aren't really ok with.

You don't even need to bring up the other job offer if you don't want to. If you ask they may give you what you want anyway.

I think you have to be prepared to leave but there is no problem in negotiating a new deal, the title and money may be easy to negotiate but the work from home could be your issue, companies are all making policies for wfh, companies as a rule like to treat people equally and giving it to you opens up conversations for other employees. It's not always effective for people to work from home even if they have managed for the past 12 mo nths. There have been so many posts lately of people almost prepared to hold their employers to ransom if they can't get wfh permanently, you know what there are thousands unemployed who are happy to go to the office

It's absolutely nothing to do with the fee, I would get paid whether you took the job or not so that's irrelevant. Recruitment is extremely costly in both time and money. If you turn them down, not only will they have lost the time and money they've invested in getting you to offer stage but they will also now have to do it all over again to find someone else which means more time and more money. You're playing two companies off against each other for no other reason than your own personal financial gain. How can that be anything other than selfish?

op tell them what you want. The issue is which a lot of people go through is they leave a job they love for only a little more money to a miserable place.
If they offer you like 500 less would you still stay or go?

best to just speak to the directors, managers ect first

Ask your present company if they can match the salary of the job offered

Tell them you’re weighing up what to do and would like to know if they can match the offer

Don't say, 'Can you match this offer?' It's 'Can you better this offer?"
And don't get hung up on a fancy job title - it's meaningless and a very easy way to fob you off without a pay rise.

I'm an ex-recruiter and we always advised people not to accept a counter-offer. Do you really want to threaten your employer that you'll leave unless you get what you want? This could have a serious impact on your relationship. And statistics actually show that approx 80% of people who accept a counter-offer are gone within 12 months of accepting. And they don't necessarily leave of their own accord.

I agree with this. Buy-back does not generally work, particularly at the senior level.

The company could make a counter-offer meeting your terms. You accept and stay and turn down the other offer. Having been previously caught out, the company then takes steps to line up a replacement. Relations turn cold between you and the company. You end up leaving anyway having burnt your bridges with the potential new employer. The counter offer was just a tactic to buy the company. As they say, no one is indispensable.

If you have a better offer for a better job, stop being scared and take it.

If your employer makes a counteroffer and you stay, all those reasons you have right now for not being happy will still be reasons in a few months.

My current employer, btw, has a policy of not making counteroffers. They don't want to set a precedent, otherwise everyone would threaten to flounce.

I have to say I don’t really understand the angst over a job title.

I’m a Finance Manager - the exact job I do is advertised as

Company Accountant
Finance Manager
Financial Controller
Head of Finance
Finance Director

Depending on industry and company size.

As long as your CV is clear about your experience I wouldn’t care about the title.

Title matters for the next job.

Lots of people inflate their experience on their CV. It is one less thing to have to explain away at interview why the experience exceeds the title.

The progression is such:

mid-level title
senior title in smallish outfit
senior title in bigger outfit

It is easier to get from the first to the third if you have the second.

@Obbydoo

What a sad post. You are living in a very bitter and twisted world if you assume every employer is bad and, even worse, think the answer is for people to deliberately screw companies over. I've worked in recruitment for 25 years and I have never known a company to withdraw a job offer.

@Obbydoo, there have been at least two posts on MN recently where the OP has had a job offer withdrawn after putting in their resignation, so it does happen.

Another one saying just talk to them. If their plan though is for everyone to be back in the office, don't be too surprised if they say no though, they have to think of the whole team; but at least then you'll know you tried :)

@Obbydoo there was a post recently where someone resigned and accepted a new offer, which was then withdrawn. Dreadful practice.

I’ve also been contacted by a recruiter on LinkedIn who emailed me for my contact details, told me there was a job with a major client in my field who needed my exact skill set to start the following week. I sent my CV and a brief summary of the last project I’d done and....nothing. I tried to phone and email for a follow-up and feedback....nothing, wouldn’t reply. I don’t think there ever was a job TBH. Shockingly unprofessional.

Your biggest problem here is never having asked before for what you want... if you ask you don’t get. It’s not rude or inappropriate to discuss your value to your employer in a reasonable and clear way.

The old adage... you don’t get if you don’t ask.

Having worked in HR I definitely hear from line managers that there are cases where there is resentment due to being “ held to ransom” in giving in to
employee’s requests. You tend to get that period of relief from the employer when someone agrees to stay and gets their new terms but sadly it doesn’t last in some cases. It’s a bit like a relationship when an affair partner agrees to stay after the pick me dance! It can result in mistrust, resentment and a feeling that the employee has marked themselves as fickle and disloyal. I think this is wrong by the way and women absolutely should be able to negotiate. I am just stating the reality of what I have seen. The difference between men and women is about the contents of the deal they are trying to make. Often men do not look to have flexibility on working arrangements as part of their new package, it tends to be financial and promotion based. This is going to be a sticking point for them in terms of precedent. I don’t think this is equitable and it needs to change. However on an individual level right here and now for you personally, yes this could lead to a worse relationship with your current employer in the long term.

Also just to add this happened to me once. I was offered a role on more money and negotiated with the existing employer a deal so I could stay. All great to start with - relief abounded, soon to be replaced by a frostiness that crept in. Never really properly thawed. I want to add also though that you sound very smart and as though you have a really interesting job which has sought after skills. I really hope it works out for you and you manage to sort out a situation you are happy with .

[quote ChrissyPlummer]@Obbydoo there was a post recently where someone resigned and accepted a new offer, which was then withdrawn. Dreadful practice.

I’ve also been contacted by a recruiter on LinkedIn who emailed me for my contact details, told me there was a job with a major client in my field who needed my exact skill set to start the following week. I sent my CV and a brief summary of the last project I’d done and....nothing. I tried to phone and email for a follow-up and feedback....nothing, wouldn’t reply. I don’t think there ever was a job TBH. Shockingly unprofessional.[/quote]
I don't see the relevance of the stories of offers being withdrawn. Yes, some companies are unprofessional and yes some recruiters are unprofessional. But why does some companies/recruiters being unprofessional mean that we should all stoop to their level and start screwing perfectly innocent companies over?

With regard to the LinkedIn thing, never send your CV to anyone unless you have seen a full job description, know exactly who the company is that they're recruiting for, (unless they ask you to sign a formal NDA), and have had a verbal conversation with the recruiter. There are cowboys in recruitment as there are in many industries and you have fallen foul of one. I'd put money on you being right, it will be an agency that you dealt with - your cv will now be on their database and there's a good chance they're spamming it around all their clients hoping one of them has a vacancy for you. I would advise you call the company and tell them you want your details removing from their files under GDPR rules. They would be breaking the law if they don't.

Thank you all for the great advice. Big conversations to have this week!

Thanks also for pointing out the sexism. It made me notice posts like this:

My current employer, btw, has a policy of not making counteroffers. They don't want to set a precedent, otherwise everyone would threaten to flounce.

And wonder if anyone would describe a man considering leaving for a better offer as ‘threatening to flounce’.

I don’t think what I am asking for will shock my employer as we openly discuss what I want out of the role and they know these are my main areas of discontent.

@Ladderclimber

Thank you all for the great advice. Big conversations to have this week!

Thanks also for pointing out the sexism. It made me notice posts like this:

My current employer, btw, has a policy of not making counteroffers. They don't want to set a precedent, otherwise everyone would threaten to flounce.

And wonder if anyone would describe a man considering leaving for a better offer as ‘threatening to flounce’.

I don’t think what I am asking for will shock my employer as we openly discuss what I want out of the role and they know these are my main areas of discontent.

Well, yes. The last person to pull that stunt at my workplace was a man, and the word flounce was used in relation to him when he went. Sorry to disappoint!

Everyone wants to be special. Everyone wants their employer to say 'no, please stay, you're irreplaceable, here, have some extra money.' The reality is, some places (like mine) won't negotiate. Others will, but the dynamic will change for the worse.

A counteroffer from your employer can only usefully be used to negotiate a higher package with the place you're going. It's never worth staying after you've burnt that bridge.

Note, I have nothing against people making a business case for why they should be paid more. That's entirely different to threatening to resign. Still might not get anywhere if you're at the top of your band and they can't justify a promotion - but it won't result in you being frozen out.

I did this in January. Ironically I wanted to be office based minimum three days a week rather than WFH as I hate it. They refused, I left, they panicked as they didn't think I was serious. I also have niche skills that are hard to recruit for. Director didn't believe I would walk over "a trivial thing like WFH".

I would contemplate having the discussion with your current employer, but without mentioning the job offer.