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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to ask if we can have a sensible discussion here about Shamima Begum?

520 replies

StephenBelafonte · 18/03/2021 12:39

I just don't understand the hostility towards her by the british government. Surely as a 15 year old she was radicalised and brainwashed.

I genuinely don't understand why the government is so harsh towards her. Unless they know something we don't. I feel so sorry for her.

OP posts:
SimonJT · 18/03/2021 18:47

@HermioneMakepeace

If a couple of homophobic kids in England cheered as a gay man was thrown off a building, what you say? Oh, they’ve been groomed? I bet you wouldn’t.
If they had been groomed I most definitely would.

Do you think the girls in Rotheram deserved it as well?

MrMeSeeks · 18/03/2021 18:50

I think she should stay there, im sorry but no she has no regret.
It’s not a race issue, anyone that joins a group set to destroy our country deserves to not be welcomed back.

Ultimatecougar · 18/03/2021 18:51

I don't see how we can refuse to take her back, she is an illegal immigrant in Syria. Surely they would be within their rights to deport her and send her back to the UK?

BooomShakeTheRoom · 18/03/2021 18:51

@jessstan2

I think they want to use her as an example of what could happen. I agree it is totally unfair and the poor girl has been through so much as result of a very youthful decision.

In many ways, the less publicity about Shamima Begum, the better. She could quietly come back here and be with her family, having her picture in the newspaper is not helpful.

I don't think she wants to come back and be with her family. As far as I understand the situation, she stands by her radical views and therefore is likely to reject her family and seek out like minded people here, or groom other youngsters.
pabloescobarselasticband · 18/03/2021 18:52

@HermioneWeasley

There is a world of difference between grooming (which involves coercion and often alcohol and drugs) and someone being interested enough in Daesh burning people alive in cages to seek them out and be persuaded to go to considerable lengths to join their death cult.

I see zero evidence of remorse, she’s just terribly sorry her murderous caliphate didn’t come about and she’d prefer to be with her parents than a Syrian refugee camp.

The British citizen thing is a complete herring - she has no way of getting back currently so it makes no difference.

Save your compassion for the Yazidi women brutalised and tortured by her regime

This ^
HermioneMakepeace · 18/03/2021 18:52

She wasn’t groomed. She actively sought out people who validated her beliefs.

BooomShakeTheRoom · 18/03/2021 18:54

@SimonJT can't we use the groomed argument for any criminal though? Oh, he beats his wife but we should forgive him as he witnessed abuse as a child.

A burglar? Oh he grew up in poverty it's not his fault.

A drug dealing gang member, oh but he was groomed by the older kids on his estate.

Where does it end? She's years older now has seen first hand the atrocities she's condoning and still doesn't regret it. Yes she was groomed but surely she now has to take responsibility?

Unfortunately any sentence she gets in the UK won't be enough.

SmileEachDay · 18/03/2021 18:55

If a couple of homophobic kids in England cheered as a gay man was thrown off a building, what you say? Oh, they’ve been groomed? I bet you wouldn’t

Has that happened? What was the background?

If I heard of a child in a far right gang committing atrocities you’re damn right I’d say they’d been radicalised.

Accepting someone has been radicalised as a child is not the same as not holding them accountable. It should inform how they are dealt with though.

AlexaShutUp · 18/03/2021 18:57

She wasn’t groomed.

What is your evidence for this. The general consensus is certainly that she was groomed.

AlexaShutUp · 18/03/2021 18:58

If I heard of a child in a far right gang committing atrocities you’re damn right I’d say they’d been radicalised.

Exactly. There is currently a major issue with white boys being groomed by far right neo nazi types. If this happened to your teenager, would you not think that the grooming had played a part?

Lampzade · 18/03/2021 18:59

Whatever one’s views on SB she is British born and bred. She is not a Bangladeshi citizen
We cannot simply ‘offload’ her and allow her to be someone else’s ‘problem’
By doing this we set a precedent and can expect other countries to ‘offload’ their ‘problem’ on Britain

Mintychocolate · 18/03/2021 18:59

Unfortunately she was part of a group of isis women who violently terrorised other women for not obeying the rules. There are people who are witness to this. So she has committed some fairly severe crimes and has probably killed at least one person.

There are Yazidi women in London who suddenly see the person that tortured them in the street. They got in as a 'refugee'. I can't begin to imagine how that must feel.

I think there's more to Shamima than we see. She's probably like one of these teenagers who do horrendous crimes in a group/couple then kind of grow out of it. But she's not an innocent victim. That would be the Kurds, and the Yazidis.

AlexaShutUp · 18/03/2021 19:00

Accepting someone has been radicalised as a child is not the same as not holding them accountable. It should inform how they are dealt with though.

And this. Nobody is saying that SB shouldn't be held accountable. However, the fact that she was groomed and radicalised as a child should be taken into consideration.

mynewernew · 18/03/2021 19:05

Loosing her citizenship is keeping her accountable and more alike.

HermioneMakepeace · 18/03/2021 19:05

@SmileEachDay ISIS routinely threw people off buildings for being gay. They also burned people to death in cages. And raped women and children.

SB proudly supports this regime. She is highly dangerous. ISIS are planning attacks on the UK and it is highly probable that she is part of that plan.

SimonJT · 18/03/2021 19:07

[quote BooomShakeTheRoom]@SimonJT can't we use the groomed argument for any criminal though? Oh, he beats his wife but we should forgive him as he witnessed abuse as a child.

A burglar? Oh he grew up in poverty it's not his fault.

A drug dealing gang member, oh but he was groomed by the older kids on his estate.

Where does it end? She's years older now has seen first hand the atrocities she's condoning and still doesn't regret it. Yes she was groomed but surely she now has to take responsibility?

Unfortunately any sentence she gets in the UK won't be enough.[/quote]
So when a child is groomed for sex its a case of tough shit when they turn 18?

mynewernew · 18/03/2021 19:11

How many more did she groom herself? If we let her in how many more would suffer as she is radicalised and WILL continue her sick greater ISIS values?

Mintychocolate · 18/03/2021 19:17

She willingly went off because it gave her power and status. Here she was just one of a million schoolgirls, there she was the wife of a feted isis fighter. She liked it. It was fun... until it wasn't. She got to hang out with the other wives, and wave guns around and bully other women for not being Islamic enough. She wanted power and status. I don't even think she's terribly religious.

RickiTarr · 18/03/2021 19:26

The OP asked why the UK government was taking a harsh line towards SB.

Why is everyone just having a general rehash of what line they think the government should be taking?

You can disagree with their policy but still understand the rationale behind it.

mynewernew · 18/03/2021 19:33

To answer your question OP , Only one in 10 jihadis returning from Syria prosecuted, figures reveal'. Stopping her and others alike from returning to U.K. helps keeping Britain safe. As it was further reviled during investigation it is not an easy task to evidence her actions abroad, therefore, not letting her return is an easier option. Her citizenship was revoked as she is automatically Bangladeshi citizenship at birth. She should be prosecuted there, however, she would not want it as she would face death sentence. Yes I agree that she should be prosecuted in Syria and that would consequently jailed her for life or she had to face death sentence.

Mintychocolate · 18/03/2021 19:37

I'm not. I think the government has evidence that points to her being highly dangerous, even now, despite all tearful interviews.

British intelligence services might know more than we the public. And be acting accordingly. But of course she's just a poor harmless victim who has never hurt anyone and who was groomed relentlessly. Is that what you wanted to hear? Is this one of these threads where there's only one right answer and no one else 'understands'?

Livelovebehappy · 18/03/2021 19:46

She didn’t help herself by initially refusing to condemn ISIS, and the crimes committed by them. Talking about it to the interviewer in a cold detached way. Now of course she’s changed how she approaches the situation, and understands that by saying she’s changed and no longer agrees with their ideology, she will garner more support and sympathy from the gullible amongst is. And that’s precisely what’s happening. I don’t believe anything she says. We have to remember that the government will have a lot more information on her than we have access to, and we have to trust them when they feel she will be a huge risk to our national security should she return.

SmileEachDay · 18/03/2021 19:47

@SmileEachDay ISIS routinely threw people off buildings for being gay. They also burned people to death in cages. And raped women and children

I don’t know why you think I don’t know anything about ISIS.

SB proudly supports this regime

Yes. That’s exactly what being radicalised means.

She is highly dangerous. ISIS are planning attacks on the UK and it is highly probable that she is part of that plan

I’d be interested to see your evidence of this.

Serin · 18/03/2021 19:50

As far as I can see she has not shown an ounce of contrition. I think stripping her of her citizenship was actually the right thing to do.

SmileEachDay · 18/03/2021 19:52

How many more did she groom herself? If we let her in how many more would suffer as she is radicalised and WILL continue her sick greater ISIS values?

If this is true and she is grooming others (which is possible, I have no idea. It’s a common featured of both groomed and radicalised children- they sometimes continue the cycle) then why should this be Syria’s problem?

Why should a country in total chaos deal with someone who was radicalised in the UK?

She was failed here. By both her family and agencies in the UK. Here. Not Syria.