AIBU to ask if we can have a sensible discussion here about Shamima Begum?

[StephenBelafonte]

I just don't understand the hostility towards her by the british government. Surely as a 15 year old she was radicalised and brainwashed.

I genuinely don't understand why the government is so harsh towards her. Unless they know something we don't. I feel so sorry for her.

*wouldn’t

@ittakes2

I think the government panicked and handled this all wrong. As a British citizen she should have been allowed back in immediately and then tried for her actions. Now the government has not only made a martyer of her but they have sent a message that being a British ciziten doesn't mean England is obliged to look after you.

I agree with this. They have massively messed up. I know what she did was wrong but she was groomed. She is the responsibility of the UK and so she should be brought back here.

SB doesn’t have dual nationality, she is just eligible to apply for another nationality, from a country who have understandably said they won’t accept her. She only ever had British citizenship. Like it or not she is our problem. I think the government is doing more damage leaving her there than if they brought her back.

A white teenager would have been treated differently under the circumstances.

Like Jack Letts?

I can buy a 15 year old being brainwashed. But as an adult she kept coming out with deplorable views. I wouldn’t be happy to welcome her back. I suspect if IS wasn’t in ruins she’d still be a happy ambassador for them.

It's heartbreaking. The poor girl.

She has done some incredibly vile things & has no regret or remorse - maybe you need to look into that, it might stem your bleeding heart.

NO we absolutely do not need her here.

There is a world of difference between grooming (which involves coercion and often alcohol and drugs) and someone being interested enough in Daesh burning people alive in cages to seek them out and be persuaded to go to considerable lengths to join their death cult.

I see zero evidence of remorse, she’s just terribly sorry her murderous caliphate didn’t come about and she’d prefer to be with her parents than a Syrian refugee camp.

The British citizen thing is a complete herring - she has no way of getting back currently so it makes no difference.

Save your compassion for the Yazidi women brutalised and tortured by her regime

This^^

Excellent post. I feel compassion in the sense she is a young girl and we don’t know the circumstances of her upbringing or how her radicalisation came about but honestly, when I see her interviewed on tv she just leaves me cold. She doesn’t seem to give a shit about anything she’s done. She just wants to come home now she’s had enough of her living quarters there. I bet if she was living a nice life over there she wouldn’t be so keen to come home.

I love the phrasing of the question.
By 'having a sensible discussion' I guess you mean 'a discussion where nobody disagrees with my point of view'.
Classic

She'd be no sooner back in the country and would be suing for millions.

Radicalised children don’t turn 18 and all of a sudden receive clarity that their views are wrong. Especially radicalised children who have experienced a lot of trauma and are still surrounded by those views. Those saying she’s an adult now so now she deserves everything she gets for those views, the mind doesn’t work like that.

I don’t feel sorry for her, but I agree she should be returned to the UK and dealt with appropriately.
Yes she was groomed but she has done some awful things.
She strikes me as not very bright and has made some stupid remarks to the press.
I think she should comeback and face the appropriate punishment through the courts.

It’s nothing to do with skin colour, there is a young white middle class man in prison in Syria because he left his home in Uk and joined Isis he wasn’t allowed to come home either.

It’s not about her particularly for me it’s who might be behind her wanting to come home. And what she could do once she’s home.

She made a decision at 15 and that was to leave this save country and join an organisation that murders innocent ppl. And she needs to stay put.

@Loopyloututu2

Unless you are white British, in which case you will be let back after all.

I’m not sure that’s true Alexa - there is a white British guy, his name escapes me who often pops up on these threads who hasn’t been allowed to return in similar circs.
Also remember SB has dual nationality. Britain have been able to use this loophole to their advantage - nothing to do with the colour of her skin.

Jack Letts white British with well off middle class parents. He has had his citizenship stripped as he had dual British and Canadian citizenship. Even with all his parents money he has still not been able to overturn the ruling.

FWIW, I personally do believe she's been brain washed, but I struggle with her lack of contrition as an adult

this is broadly where I am at with it all. I think she should be allowed back in and face whatever consequences are appropriate and within the law. The recent "makeover" feels disingenuous and will only lead to the "general" public feeling like she's trying to pull a swift one

@OverByYer when you say she should be “brought home”, who are you volunteering to go into a war zone and get her, and at whose cost?

I think she should be allowed to return to and that it's outrageous that she was stripped of the only citizenship she holds, leaving her stateless. Yes, she's an adult now and is accountable for her actions, but she was 15 when she made a stupid decision. How many of us did the same? And no, we didn't go off and join ISIS, but in the end she was a DC at the time. She should be allowed to come back and face British justice. IMO stripping her of her citizenship was wrong.

I don’t mean this is a shitty, “FFS we have had a million threads on this way”

But OP, if you’re interested in reading lots of opinions, there have been several very recent threads - which you might enjoy it you search.

I think any other type of violent cult and she would have been treated with much more leniency but throw Islam into the mix and right wingers get frothing and they are this government’s base

It’s not about Islam. It’s about ISIS, who have terrorised more Muslims than anyone else, likely. Don’t forget about that.

She likely cheered as they beheaded infidels, sold young girls into sex slavery and executed untold innocents.

She should be left where she is and face justice the local way. This is very likely what she’s really afraid of.

I don't think what she's done can really be dismissed as a teenage mistake.
However, she was born, raised and radicalised in Britain. She's our responsibility and she should not have had her citizenship taken away.

IIRC, Sajid Javid had just been made home secretary when he made the decision to do it. It was a reflection of public opinion (and, especially being from a British Pakistani background, Javid would have been absolutely ripped to shreds by the press if he didn't take a hard-line approach).
I don't think it was a good idea at all. Not because I'm fond of the woman or think she deserves a second chance but because she's our problem to deal with.

face British justice

British justice is much too soft for the likes of ISIS.

Save your compassion for the Yazidi women brutalised and tortured by her regime

Agreed.

I agree @HermioneWeasley - who is volunteering to go and get her? I've asked the same on other threads before on SB. It would be a female civilian most likely - who's sign up for that? I certainly wouldn't.

I think she has been 'hampered' by what of a better word by not being able to get back here quietly as other males have done, as we couldn't have refused her entry if she's done that before her citizenship was revoked.

But people who think she'll go to prison probably need to consider what evidence we have against her other than her actually leaving to join Isis? I doubt she would serve very long and then the security services would have to keep her under surveillance.

What I do think odd in these case is the parents position that it's all somebody else's fault! They actually lived with her in the same house, and if they didn't know what she was up to, then why would the school or the police be better informed? If my DS ran off at 15 I'd certainly be examining what went wrong in our family for him to do that.

@UsedUpUsername - oh I am well away ISIS do not represent Islam, but as soon as anything Islamic is involved the Islamaphobes on the right lose all sense of rational thought

Poor girl. Heart breaking. Yea sure.

As others have said, no remorse, still believes in the cause. No actual evidence that she had children. She's an adult now and had time to consider that what she did was a mistake, but she hasn't.

Stay where she is