AIBU to ask if we can have a sensible discussion here about Shamima Begum?

[StephenBelafonte]

I just don't understand the hostility towards her by the british government. Surely as a 15 year old she was radicalised and brainwashed.

I genuinely don't understand why the government is so harsh towards her. Unless they know something we don't. I feel so sorry for her.

Can you maybe explain to us @SmileEachDay what is wrong, jingoistic and “faux” about feeling joy for these - clearly good - people and preferring to concentrate on them than perpetrators of the horror?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49599377

Did you not hear anything about the regime, the unspeakable atrocities and the bombing?

I have worked extensively with Syrian refugees, including teenagers. I have witnessed the full impact of their trauma. I have heard first hand about some of the atrocities that they have suffered. I have seen how their lives have been ripped apart. Their pain has affected me deeply. I really don't need to be reminded how abhorrent ISIS is.

I still think it's relevant that SB was a vulnerable child when she was radicalised, and that it was wrong to remove her citizenship.

It isn't a binary choice.

Oh, and I have also seen the hostility and racism that those same traumatised teenage refugees have encountered here in the UK. Let's not pretend that we as a nation have boundless compassion for those who have suffered. Many of those who are glad to see the back of SB will be busy making life in the UK difficult for the victims of the ISIS regime.

If your concern isn’t “faux” then I’m not talking about you. A lot of the responses on this thread are though.

Alexa - me too.

It isn't a binary choice.

No it’s not, but as I’ve said multiple times, SB will eventually win her case and return and doesn’t require anything from us, the public.

The OP’s question was about why the government are pursuing this course of action to hinder her return, and there’s an obvious answer to that. Deterrence of others.

@AlexaShutUp

Oh, and I have also seen the hostility and racism that those same traumatised teenage refugees have encountered here in the UK. Let's not pretend that we as a nation have boundless compassion for those who have suffered. Many of those who are glad to see the back of SB will be busy making life in the UK difficult for the victims of the ISIS regime.

I don’t think anybody on the thread is attempting to speak for the entire nation.

We all know there are arseholes and racists lurking about everywhere, you just have to hope that these Syrian refugees, or any refugees for that matter, don’t encounter too much of that and do meet welcoming, friendly people, and build happy new lives quickly.

I also hope that not too many extremists slip in pretending to be Syrians, but that’s just me with my deranged and unreasonable concern for security matters.

Honestly, I think her citizenship is a moot point. If she is tried in Syria (which she should be) then she will probably be given the death penalty.

We all know there are arseholes and racists lurking about everywhere, you just have to hope that these Syrian refugees, or any refugees for that matter, don’t encounter too much of that and do meet welcoming, friendly people, and build happy new lives quickly.

They encounter it every single bloody day.

They encounter it every single bloody day.

That’s awful. Heartbreaking, actually after everything they’ve been through.

It doesn’t give me any extra sympathy for Begum and her colleagues, though. Decreases it, if anything.

Also your concern for refugees is admirable, is it unreasonable to point out that many people are on waiting lists for accommodation with HA and LA of up to 10 years. The UK prioritises asylum seekers and refugees.

The UK prioritises asylum seekers and refugees

As it should.

@Stratfordplace

Also your concern for refugees is admirable, is it unreasonable to point out that many people are on waiting lists for accommodation with HA and LA of up to 10 years. The UK prioritises asylum seekers and refugees.

The answer to that is to build much more council housing, not to de-prioritise people who have been terrorised, bombed out, bereaved, come halfway across the world to find safety, are traumatised and need a modest but permanent home to regroup in.

If you are concerned about that aspect, write emails or postcards to your MP and your local councillors this afternoon. If everyone who reads this thread did that, it might have some impact.

That’s awful. Heartbreaking, actually after everything they’ve been through.

Yep. Try explaining to a 16yo boy who has seen his whole family killed in front of him, then made a long and terrifying journey away from his homeland, during which he has been horribly exploited and abused, why he has been beaten up by a group of adult men just weeks after arriving in a supposedly safe country because they apparently hate "dirty fucking asylum seekers". Then try arguing with the police about why this really does need to be recorded as a hate crime. Then try explaining why some of the kids at college laughed at the child's injuries and said that he probably deserved it. Then try explaining to that traumatised child why the police are not going to take any further action on the case after the initial investigation failed to produce sufficient evidence, because they cannot prioritise the resource that would be required to investigate further. Then you will forgive me for being sceptical about the level of compassion that this country has for the victims of the ISIS regime.

I understand that people will have different views on the SB case. That's fair enough. Not everyone will have compassion for a teenager who has made some really terrible decisions, and I can understand that. My issue is primarily about the difference in how we treat people with a foreign born parent, because I believe that all British born citizens should be treated the same. However, let's not kid ourselves that there is a whole lot more compassion for ISIS victims either.

@AlexaShutUp

That’s awful. Heartbreaking, actually after everything they’ve been through.

Yep. Try explaining to a 16yo boy who has seen his whole family killed in front of him, then made a long and terrifying journey away from his homeland, during which he has been horribly exploited and abused, why he has been beaten up by a group of adult men just weeks after arriving in a supposedly safe country because they apparently hate "dirty fucking asylum seekers". Then try arguing with the police about why this really does need to be recorded as a hate crime. Then try explaining why some of the kids at college laughed at the child's injuries and said that he probably deserved it. Then try explaining to that traumatised child why the police are not going to take any further action on the case after the initial investigation failed to produce sufficient evidence, because they cannot prioritise the resource that would be required to investigate further. Then you will forgive me for being sceptical about the level of compassion that this country has for the victims of the ISIS regime.

I understand that people will have different views on the SB case. That's fair enough. Not everyone will have compassion for a teenager who has made some really terrible decisions, and I can understand that. My issue is primarily about the difference in how we treat people with a foreign born parent, because I believe that all British born citizens should be treated the same. However, let's not kid ourselves that there is a whole lot more compassion for ISIS victims either.

Honestly, that’s making me wonder what town you’re talking about. That whole thing sounds horrific.

Equally honestly, there is nothing but “compassion for ISIS victims” and Syrian escapees where I am, from everyone I ever speak to, and it crops up a lot because a number of migrants have been settled locally, but (and maybe this important) not a massive number, and this is not an economically depressed area.

However it did strike me that in that BBC article I linked, Huddersfield was the first place name to crop up and Hull was the second.

So that brings up a lot of questions about where refugees are being resettled, in terms of demographics and economics and the levels of enlightened thinking of the local community. OTOH, I can see there’s a lot of silent Nimbyism in the middle classes which is probably having a massive influence on decision making.

Depressing. I’m glad people like you are helping them on the ground, though, regardless of policy & politics making this harder.

RickiTarr writing emails and postcards to MPs and councillors really doesn’t work. I tried recently regarding a children’s play park which has been rented out weekdays to a private school so no little ones can use it during the daytime. The play park is empty they just use the playing field. I never even got an acknowledgment.

Well some MOs are better than others, and they won’t always agree with you, but you still have your local councillors, government ministers, Prime Minister and possibly a local Mayor to lobby, as appropriate.

If housing issues bother you, write to the Minister (details [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Housing,_Communities_and_Local_Government]] ) and your local councillor.

Sorry fluffed the link. It’s:-

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Housing,_Communities_and_Local_Government

The answer to that is to build much more council housing, not to de-prioritise people who have been terrorised, bombed out, bereaved, come halfway across the world to find safety, are traumatised and need a modest but permanent home to regroup in

I totally agree. Unfortunately, the issues around housing are used as a mask for out and out racism. The refugees and asylum seekers within my city also face this daily. It’s utterly shit and I don’t think it’s rare.

Issues around housing are not used to mask racism. I see the homeless all around. I don’t wish to get into it but really racism is used all the time now whenever anyone disagrees. I think some of you need to come down from your Ivory towers and see the problems everyday people face.

Honestly, that’s making me wonder what town you’re talking about. That whole thing sounds horrific.

Obviously don't want to say where I am, but it is a relatively average town tbh. Definitely not disadvantaged - it's a pretty "naice" area with some pockets of deprivation. Relatively diverse population and pretty well integrated on the whole - certainly less racist than some other parts of the country that I've lived in previously. Tbh, I think most people just don't see this stuff until it's right in front of them - I was pretty oblivious to the extent of discrimination towards refugees before I got involved.

@HermioneWeasley

“Teenage mistakes” are things like drinking too much cider and being sick on your parents new sofa

Travelling across continents to join a medieval death cult in their spree of rape murder and torture is not a “teenage mistake”.

💯 this.

For people suggesting she should condemn ISIS while living in a camp in Syria I suggest you watch the SKY report on their news channel where woman are too scared to talk about it unless their identity is hidden.

@ancientgran

For people suggesting she should condemn ISIS while living in a camp in Syria I suggest you watch the SKY report on their news channel where woman are too scared to talk about it unless their identity is hidden.

She didn’t have to justify the Manchester Arena bombing. For me that was the clincher - not much room for sympathy with her for teenage girls being killed and maimed. If she’s not fazed by seeing a dismembered head in a bin, I doubt she’s easily scared.

You are judging without knowing what pressure she was under, what she had been told to say. Have you seen the Sky report? The women are terrified. Maybe you are right and maybe you are wrong, it isn't possible to know. On the Sky report an injured teenager who spoke with her identity hidden had to be moved for her safety after the interview.

@ancientgran

You are judging without knowing what pressure she was under, what she had been told to say. Have you seen the Sky report? The women are terrified. Maybe you are right and maybe you are wrong, it isn't possible to know. On the Sky report an injured teenager who spoke with her identity hidden had to be moved for her safety after the interview.

In which case why is she still there, bold as brass in Western clothes with blow dried hair? It makes no sense.