AIBU to ask if we can have a sensible discussion here about Shamima Begum?

[StephenBelafonte]

I just don't understand the hostility towards her by the british government. Surely as a 15 year old she was radicalised and brainwashed.

I genuinely don't understand why the government is so harsh towards her. Unless they know something we don't. I feel so sorry for her.

I think they want to use her as an example of what could happen. I agree it is totally unfair and the poor girl has been through so much as result of a very youthful decision.

In many ways, the less publicity about Shamima Begum, the better. She could quietly come back here and be with her family, having her picture in the newspaper is not helpful.

Well, yes, you’re entirely right and it’s a disgrace how her case has been handled. But you are about to get a whole load of bUt ShE’s A dAnGeRoUs CrImInAl!!!!

YANBU - people accept grooming is a thing - that kids are at risk online from exploitation - but they refuses to accept that included radicalisation - the fact is she was a 15 year old child - she should not be treated like this.

I think the government panicked and handled this all wrong. As a British citizen she should have been allowed back in immediately and then tried for her actions. Now the government has not only made a martyer of her but they have sent a message that being a British ciziten doesn't mean England is obliged to look after you.

I think she was effectively a groomed minor when she went out to Syria.
I feel she should come back here and be tried if necessary and given some chance of redeeming herself.

The government is harsh towards her because public opinion is harsh. You will no doubt see that in the responses.

I don't have a great opinion of her and I believe that she should be tried for any crimes that she may have committed, but I agree that she was a vulnerable teenager when she was radicalised, and that should have been taken into account.

She was born in Britain, she grew up in Britain, and she was radicalised in Britain. Her nationality should never have been stripped. Whatever people may think about her, she is our problem.

A white teenager would have been treated differently under the circumstances. Whatever else she may or may not have done, the crime that has made the biggest difference in this case is the fact that SB has brown skin.

I agree - she was groomed. She needs to be back in the U.K.

We have all made teenage mistakes and she is being pilloried. The girl has been to hell and back.

As far as I understand it, she still holds those views, unless she’s said otherwise and I missed it. If isis were still invading places and winning territory then I don’t think she’d suddenly want to come back either.

Generally gillick competence for medical or other treatment is considered to be 12 so at 15 she’s over that age, I do think probably more easy to manipulate but I don’t totally buy the idea that she was completely blameless and vulnerable

She planned going there on her own so took a good amount of autonomous action to go there by herself so she was going of her volition

I think like most things it’s a grey area in many ways

This government have to appeal to a broadly right wing, broadly risk averse and broadly older voter base.

Amongst the general population, you'll probably find a range of opinions from the far liberal to the far right.

FWIW, I personally do believe she's been brain washed, but I struggle with her lack of contrition as an adult.

That said, I think the government's approach to deny citizenship, in her specific case is slightly spurious given her strong British history. I think she should be brought back to the UK to face justice here.

She’s definitely been made an example of. I feel a bit sorry for her as I wonder if she’s not particularly intelligent but I do understand the reasoning behind not letting her back. It sends the message “look, if you do this - don’t count on being let back in the country”. I would imagine it has deterred quite a few like-minded youngsters from following in SB’s footsteps. She’s a bit of a sacrificial lamb really.

It sends the message “look, if you do this - don’t count on being let back in the country”

Unless you are white British, in which case you will be let back after all.

There is a world of difference between grooming (which involves coercion and often alcohol and drugs) and someone being interested enough in Daesh burning people alive in cages to seek them out and be persuaded to go to considerable lengths to join their death cult.

I see zero evidence of remorse, she’s just terribly sorry her murderous caliphate didn’t come about and she’d prefer to be with her parents than a Syrian refugee camp.

The British citizen thing is a complete herring - she has no way of getting back currently so it makes no difference.

Save your compassion for the Yazidi women brutalised and tortured by her regime

I agree OP I feel so sorry for her she has been failed . She is a British citizen and was groomed as child . She has lost 3 children which no doubt has had a devastating impact on her mental health . She needs help, educated and cared for. No woman should be cast aside after going through that kind of trauma.

The government is treating her harshly as they are driven by popularity and this is an easy win.

People who are groomed later feel emotions like regret, revulsion and Shamima as an adult has said things like the Manchester Bombing was justified which doesn't help.

I've read on here that religious indoctrination is as difficult to "cure" as paedophilia and people can be very rarely deradicalized.

I think any other type of violent cult and she would have been treated with much more leniency but throw Islam into the mix and right wingers get frothing and they are this government’s base.

Personally I think she should be allowed back and helped to deradicalise in a secure place. A trial should take into account she was a minor who had been groomed.

People seem to enjoy hating SB.

I find it odd how British govt is desperate to keep SB out as enemy of the state. Keeping her out is sold as how to keep Britain safe. Meanwhile the Iranian govt won't let (apparent enemy of the state) Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe stay out of prison or leave Iran. Keeping Iran safe means keeping NZR locked up in Iran.

Sad world we live in.

Her skin colour makes no difference, she could be pink or green and I'd still have the same opinion.

She is a threat!

Yes we make silly mistakes as teenagers we don't get on a plane and start chopping people's heads off!

leave her where she is she deserves it!

I do believe she was brainwashed but strongly feel that she is a danger to the UK and shouldn't be allowed to return. She has openly bragged about sewing suicide bombers into their vests and sending them off on their missions so is partly responsible for numerous deaths.

I do understand that we all make mistakes as teenagers but she has no regret and shows no remorse for her actions. The lack of contrition is chilling, and she is only trying to step up the charm and dressing in western clothes now to get what she wants.

“Teenage mistakes” are things like drinking too much cider and being sick on your parents new sofa

Travelling across continents to join a medieval death cult in their spree of rape murder and torture is not a “teenage mistake”.

Shoxfordian there's actually no age limit for Gillick competence - the whole point is it's assessed on an individual basis for anyone aged under 16.

@RedGoldAndGreene - there are lots of examples of de radicalisation. I’ve seen a number of talks by people who have de radicalised themselves from fundamental Christianity and neo-nazism. The government’s PREVENT programme is laughable but I would write her off just yet.

@AlexaShutUp

It sends the message “look, if you do this - don’t count on being let back in the country”

Unless you are white British, in which case you will be let back after all.

A white, British man had his UK citizenship revoked also.

I would say we aren't privvy to all of the info, therefore it's hard to make an informed opinion.

Unless you are white British, in which case you will be let back after all.

I’m not sure that’s true Alexa - there is a white British guy, his name escapes me who often pops up on these threads who hasn’t been allowed to return in similar circs.
Also remember SB has dual nationality. Britain have been able to use this loophole to their advantage - nothing to do with the colour of her skin.