Page 2 | To think it's normal to discuss an unborn baby's skin colour?

AlexaShutUp · 17/03/2021 13:31

I have a mixed race dd. I don't think we ever discussed what she would look like before she was born - not skin colour, not eye colour, not hair colour, not height etc. It just wasn't an issue that came up.

crosspelican · 17/03/2021 13:34

I'd have thought it was perfectly normal too. But if MM felt there were racist undertones then it's not for me, a white woman, to say she was wrong (especially with that family of all families!).

But if she felt that people were being zingy about it, why on earth wasn't it addressed and smoothed over "internally" so to speak? It seems like the royal family has depended pretty heavily on "silent spouses" up til now, to just mutely ignore rudeness. Kate, obviously, Mike Tindall probably too.

If someone on here said "I'm mixed race, and my husband's family hasn't encountered this before and they're speculating about my baby's skin colour as if I'm not even in the room. I feel attacked." people would say "You don't have an IL problem, you have a husband problem." and I think that's what it boils down to here. People were rude to her and Harry did nothing about it until it was so far gone that she wanted to go home.

stuckinarutatwork · 17/03/2021 13:35

Yes I think so. My DNeices and DNephew are mixed race (1/4 of a BAME ethnicity, 3/4 white British). Eldest DNiece very closely resembles the BAME family members - in fact she doesn't really look like she has much / any Caucasian heritage at all despite having 3 White British grandparents! DNephew is blond and fair-skinned and people are often surprised that his DGrandmother has another heritage. There was a LOT of talk when DNiece 2 was due as to what she might look like given the difference in her siblings' appearance. Perfectly normal.
But is this really any different to the discussion we had when my other brother's DWife was expecting her third child? Both my brother and his wife have brown hair. Their first child had jet black hair. Their second was blonde. We all wondered what the third child would be like... he was ginger!

crosspelican · 17/03/2021 13:35

Equally she could be milking it for awful behaviour when it was just conversation. It's impossible to really know.

FFSAllTheGoodOnesArereadyTaken · 17/03/2021 13:36

I am friends with quite a few mixed race couples with children and most of them have wondered aloud what skin tone their children would be, and a lot of them have also made jokes about the differences between their children (eg their children looking different races).
However I wouldn't probably have said anything to them about their babys likely skin tone, and no way would I have made a joke about siblings looking different races to each other for example.
I think it's one of those things, if the family concerned are talking about it then you can join in, but I wouldnt bring it up.
And being excited to know what your baby is going to look like, is very different to having 'concerns' about it

Eskarina1 · 17/03/2021 13:37

I'm fascinated by the way my heritage plays out differently in my dc. It is something I've discussed (particularly with my mum, who struggles a little that none of us resemble her, or her family) but I'm very aware that it could be raised in a racist way.

I say this as the blonde, pale eyed child of a white father and (predominantly) Indian mother. My sister has my mum's dark hair and brown eyes. I was absolutely the favourite grandchild on my dad's side and we all knew why. (My parents were very lc with this side of the family)

Mindyourownbobbleheadedness · 17/03/2021 13:37

@AlexaShutUp

I have a mixed race dd. I don't think we ever discussed what she would look like before she was born - not skin colour, not eye colour, not hair colour, not height etc. It just wasn't an issue that came up.

Really wow? I did as my husband and I have different skin tones and eye colour and wondered if and what our children would look like. I hope he has your green eyes as it was my favourite colour. One child had blonde hair so thought it be nice to have a dark hair child too. We didn't care really how they would come out of course you think your own is adorable no matter what colour, size.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 17/03/2021 13:39

Context is important though. Based on my experience yes we discussed hair and eye colouring, skin tone (mostly on the basis of the hope the baby didn’t have very pale colouring that burns at the sight of the sun).

RickiTarr · 17/03/2021 13:40

I think for anyone to set rumours going about a racist ‘concern’ and then not be more specific is deeply irresponsible. It leads to speculation and distrust. Especially when it’s reported second hand, by someone who wasn’t involved in the conversation. What was she thinking?!

It has cast aspersions on the entire RF and that is very unfortunate for sure. I can’t quite make her out. Obviously she has attracted a lot of racist comments since she started dating Harry and that will have had an effect on her and she is justified to be angry about that, OFC. OTOH she got some of the facts around the rules on titles plain wrong, so she’s misunderstood some stuff too, which is easy to do when a lot is happening and you’re emotional & hormonal in a foreign country. So she makes completely valid points, relates her own experience, gets some facts wrong and all the other stuff she said is in the middle is waiting to be confirmed or debunked. I find it very hard to decode her through the actressy Californian presentation, though.

Flowerlane · 17/03/2021 13:41

We too are a mixed race family and what skin tone our children would be was raised whilst pregnant as well as eye colour and hair. It was a general conversation. Nothing to do with racism.

I would be interested to see how the conversation was actually spoken about was it general curiosity as Meghan is mixed race and Harry is a red head and it was taken wrongly or whether it was actually a racist conversation, unfortunately we shall never know.

Original poster

JustWonderingIfYou · 17/03/2021 13:41

Sounds like its normalish then.

It never concerned me at the time and i don't think it does now.

Who said which comments seems to matter and a lot of them were not from who you'd imagine! I have Asian and European blood. My DP has South American and distant African and European. His South American relatives seem to have the biggest opinions, one cousin hoped baby would have my paler skin to look richer and another wanted him darker to fit in.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks I have had to ask certain inlaws to not do the stretching eyelid "slitty eye" thing. I find it in bad taste rather than be offended by it thought.
@AlexaShutUp I can't imagine not wondering what your baby will look like! Obviously you wonder about their personality but you never though who's nose will she get?

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Tinydinosaur · 17/03/2021 13:42

How would you have felt if a white person said "ooh I hope he doesn't come out dark." Or "what will you do if he comes out dark?"
There's a difference between, "I wonder who he'll look like" and "I hope he doesn't look like you!"
I'm finding myself getting annoyed at people showing preference over the gender of my baby. And there's a difference when you're talking about your own characteristics, I can say I hope my baby doesn't get my nose, I'll tear MIL a new one if she said it.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 17/03/2021 13:43

As I redhead my first assumption (I heard that someone had asked about the baby’s colour) was that someone has said ‘I hope it’s not a ginger’. But then - I never had any negative comments when pregnant, so this is where my mind automatically went (as I have heard some nasty comments about red haired babies).

Original poster

JustWonderingIfYou · 17/03/2021 13:44

@Flowerlane

We too are a mixed race family and what skin tone our children would be was raised whilst pregnant as well as eye colour and hair. It was a general conversation. Nothing to do with racism.

I would be interested to see how the conversation was actually spoken about was it general curiosity as Meghan is mixed race and Harry is a red head and it was taken wrongly or whether it was actually a racist conversation, unfortunately we shall never know.

I wonder too about the context, hard without a quote. I think many things I heard could be taken with offence if I so wished. I could definitely "spin" some comments to sound appalling.

OP posts:

Original poster

JustWonderingIfYou · 17/03/2021 13:46

@Tinydinosaur

How would you have felt if a white person said "ooh I hope he doesn't come out dark." Or "what will you do if he comes out dark?" There's a difference between, "I wonder who he'll look like" and "I hope he doesn't look like you!" I'm finding myself getting annoyed at people showing preference over the gender of my baby. And there's a difference when you're talking about your own characteristics, I can say I hope my baby doesn't get my nose, I'll tear MIL a new one if she said it.

I did have that. People saying how would I feel as he wouldn't look like me, they hoped he wasn't too dark or I'd look like the nanny. It hadn't occurred to me. Being mixed myself, I'm not a carbon copy of either parent though do resemble both. Some people definitely seem to go by just colour as to who children look like.

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ShirleyPhallus · 17/03/2021 13:47

It went from people joking about whether he'd need factor 50 like one grandparent to hoping he'd be dark enough to dance in carnival. Even jokes hoping he'd escape the "asian glow".

As a white person i would find these kind of jokes inappropriate to say to someone with BAME heritage

IFoundMyselfInThisBar · 17/03/2021 13:49

I think if there was ‘concern’ over Archies skin colour and Harry felt ‘awkward’ and ‘shocked’ then this wasn’t a conversation out of curiosity and excitement. All the racist people I’ve heard comment are justifying it though.

In some families, this discussion apparently takes place and if everyone is happy, then that’s fine.

Slightly different but I have a friend with red, her partner has dark hair. His family had many conversations about the hair colour of the baby when my friend was pregnant. These conversations were negative, it wasn’t curiosity or excitement. They didn’t want the child to have red hair. They don’t have much to do with his family now and this was one of the reasons why although there were others.

IFoundMyselfInThisBar · 17/03/2021 13:49

*red hair

toffeebutterpopcorn · 17/03/2021 13:49

Here’s something. Ds was a gorgeous little kid (aren’t they all). I was in a shop waiting to pay and the assistant was staring at him intently. Because he was gorgeous of course).

When I was puting my shopping on the belt she kept staring and eventually said ‘what is he?’. I said ‘pardon?’ And she then said ‘where is he from?’. I started bristling - she obviously realised - and quickly said ‘is his dad from X? Because I’m from X!!!!’ (a country where you do have a diverse mix of colourings from blonde blue eyes to dark skin and black curls).

Anyone else would have got a poke in the eye mind you...

Mindyourownbobbleheadedness · 17/03/2021 13:50

@Tinydinosaur

How would you have felt if a white person said "ooh I hope he doesn't come out dark." Or "what will you do if he comes out dark?" There's a difference between, "I wonder who he'll look like" and "I hope he doesn't look like you!" I'm finding myself getting annoyed at people showing preference over the gender of my baby. And there's a difference when you're talking about your own characteristics, I can say I hope my baby doesn't get my nose, I'll tear MIL a new one if she said it.

Well yeah if it was said "I hope he doesn't come out dark" that would be deeply deeply offensive and upsetting...but like someone said we may never know how it was said it could of been a misunderstanding or it could of been a very unpleasant comment. Unless H&M gave more details it's left upon speculation.

LongTimeMammaBear · 17/03/2021 13:55

Yes, we had this too OP. I’m very white, straight light hair - Eastern European with a dash of very, very pale Irish (my poor grandad would bun with factor 50 and sitting under an umbrella) whereas my DS father was very dark Hispanic also very dark, black curly hair

We not only talked about (wondering) possible skin tone but also possible hair colour/texture, particularly the Irish red hair from my grandad. Funny no one thought it racist to discuss the vey white freckle skin and red hair concern of the in laws.

RoseLimeade · 17/03/2021 14:07

My son is biracial.

Someone talking about it with me or my husband, with genuine casual curiosity? Fine.

Someone talking about it behind our backs, concerned? Not fine.

I feel like it’s pretty easy to see whether it’s problematic or not based on context, and only the parents themselves are placed to know whether it’s problematic or not. If MM and husband found it inappropriate then I’m sure they were quite capable of judging that for themselves.

RoseLimeade · 17/03/2021 14:10

@toffeebutterpopcorn

Here’s something. Ds was a gorgeous little kid (aren’t they all). I was in a shop waiting to pay and the assistant was staring at him intently. Because he was gorgeous of course).

When I was puting my shopping on the belt she kept staring and eventually said ‘what is he?’. I said ‘pardon?’ And she then said ‘where is he from?’. I started bristling - she obviously realised - and quickly said ‘is his dad from X? Because I’m from X!!!!’ (a country where you do have a diverse mix of colourings from blonde blue eyes to dark skin and black curls).

Anyone else would have got a poke in the eye mind you...

She’d have got a poke in the eye regardless from me.

‘What is he?’ he’s a human being.

If she’d asked ‘does he have Asian heritage?’ or something then I’d be a bit agog she thought it was appropriate to ask about that to a complete stranger but it wouldn’t raise my hackles in the way that ‘what is he’ would.

Lockdownbear · 17/03/2021 14:12

One of my friends is in a mix race family. Children and their cousins are all have 3 white Grandparents and 1 black. Massive difference in the skin tone of the mixed race adults, and even bigger differences in the children. Some of the children are more clearly mixed race than others.
It gets discussed along with sex, weight and amount of hair.

The word concern,
Who's concern, was the person expressing concern that the child could be a target for abuse, was the person expressing concern that the child's parentage would be questioned, particularly if it comes out darker than the mixed race parent?

2bazookas · 17/03/2021 14:14

When the parents have red and black hair respectively, it is totally normal to wonder if the baby will be dark or not. It refers to hair.

In Scotland and Ireland, red hair is a common recessive gene and many redhaired parents produce blackhaired children (and vice versa). Harry himself must be familiar with commentary on that score( son of dark haired father.) In Britain , wondering "Will a redhaired parent 's baby be dark" is a common and entirely innocent speculation nothing to do with skin colour or race.