Houseshare problems - tenant's new boyfriend refuses to leave

[FirstAvenue]

Name changed, looking for advice here. I'll try not to go into too much detail.

I own a five bedroom house in a town a fair distance away and I let out four bedrooms under Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreements. It's an all female house as I have found that way it is generally easier to manage from a distance.

I do everything as professionally as possible, I advertise empty rooms, take references from applicants, tell them the house rules and give the tenants a proper tenancy agreement which states that they have exclusive use of their bedroom and shared use of the communal areas.

One of the House rules states: "Your room is for single occupancy only and boyfriends / girlfriends etc. should only really stay every other weekend." Now it's not that I am a prude, it's just that I have learnt from previous bad experiences that the house becomes overcrowded and untidy and generally starts to smell if the house is over-occupied. It's very hard to let a room if the house smells.

One of the girls, let's call her Ann, got a new boyfriend about six months ago and recently he appears to have "moved in". She says he has not and that she is aware of the house rules, but he is "always there" despite him living nearby. Unfortunately it is not just a case of staying in her room, he seems to spend most of the time watching TV in the living room and has even set his laptop up in the kitchen.

One of the other girls, let's call her Betsy, has complained about his continued presence. Betsy says that she took the house on the basis that it was girls only, and that she feels uncomfortable with him being in the house all the time in his dressing gown.

I've asked Ann to stick to the house rules and to make sure he only stays ever other weekend, and she has at various times in the last two weeks a) denied that he stays there in the week, b) says he does stay over sometimes but the other girls don't mind, or c) says that he is her partner and she wants him to stay as much as possible. It is clear that she is not telling the truth.

Betsy however made a further formal complaint to me last Tuesday, and after a number of texts and phone calls to Ann during which time the boyfriend did not depart, last Friday I had to write an email to Ann asking her to make sure that house rules are obeyed and that her boyfriend only stays two nights a fortnight. I did not get a reply.

Betsy went away for the weekend but when she arrived back last night the boyfriend was there and he was still there this morning. She is now dreading going back home this evening, and it is my understanding that he has now stayed there for 11 consecutive nights. Betsy is now asking me what she should do if he is still there this evening.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to resolve this?

I've let property out before and I would definitely give Ann notice. You haven't really explained why you won't other than Ann would have to wait 6 months before any further action could be taken?

I wouldn't really care about an individual tenant so Betsy wouldn't really bother me enough to change things but Ann is not only breaking your rules but also being a gang leader in how to get the others to agree to her breaking the rules.
You know full well that bf is living there but you're turning a blind eye.
So eventually you will lose Betsy which perhaps you're ok with, however, Ann will 100% break more rules or worse make other tenants move out eventually and you'll still be stuck with her until notice periods go down again which could be a while.

I would report bf to police for covid breach first if you don't want to evict Ann this is an easy option and one that will have immediate effect with little disruption. You will always lose if you give tenants like Ann too much freedom to negotiate rules you set for a reason.

@FirstAvenue

Sorry I missed that out, current Covid rules are that you have to give someone six month's notice at the moment, so giving notice to Ann is not a short term option. My question is more about what I can say to Betsy who is upset about going home tonight.

Does Covid rules apply if the tenancy has been broken? I would give Ann a call giving her two choice 1) abide by my rules 2) you have 6 months to find new accommodation. I wouldn't leave it up to Betsey to sort out. She seems like a good tenant and she may end up leaving if she's that worried about going back home because another room mate is breaking the law. Do you know how the other tenants feel?

I am amazed by the cheek of Ann. I have lived in a few house shares and its consideration of the other housemates not to have a boyfriend or anyone else continually staying.

I have never had this formally in the contract but the rooms are let for single occupation.

Also when I did have a boyfriend staying we didn't hog the communal areas either. That isn't fair.

Surely if a man who is not on the tenancy agreement is entering the house and making a legal tenant feel threatened, the Police should be able to remove him? Have we not just been talking about how women are not feeling safe. This is Betsy's HOME and she has to endure a strange man there? I don't think so.

@thenovice

Surely if a man who is not on the tenancy agreement is entering the house and making a legal tenant feel threatened, the Police should be able to remove him? Have we not just been talking about how women are not feeling safe. This is Betsy's HOME and she has to endure a strange man there? I don't think so.

Unfortunately that isn't the law. He is a guest of a legal tenant. The only legal route to remove him would be to evict the tenant whose guest he is and, if she drags her feet about being evicted, that could easily take 18 months.

'House rules' will be seen as a discretionary term if you were to evict based on this

A good landlord should be able to enforce rules with confidence and assertiveness. You really need to up your game OP because otherwise you will lose your good loyal tenants and have tenants instead who disrespect you and your property.

I moved out of two hmos from landlords like this. It isn't fun.

@roomtomove

A good landlord should be able to enforce rules with confidence and assertiveness. You really need to up your game OP because otherwise you will lose your good loyal tenants and have tenants instead who disrespect you and your property.

I moved out of two hmos from landlords like this. It isn't fun.

Really? If your tenants are determined to take the piss, and don't give two hoots about anyone else, then you can be as confident and assertive as you like - they know their rights and will laugh in your face (or slam the door in it). If you think that being confident and assertive will make one iota of difference with many people then you have led a very sheltered life. The problem is that it's very difficult to evict and takes an extremely long time. The bad tenants know this and use it to their advantage.

@willithappen

'House rules' will be seen as a discretionary term if you were to evict based on this

And it would be madness to try to evict using Section 8 and the chances of gaining possession on the basis of such a discretionary term isn't great. Section 21 would be the only sensible route to take.

It would take a housing officer to be sure, but presumably there is a difference between a list of house rules, and something written into the contract of tenancy. No overnight guests, no guests in communal areas, is not, on the face of it, unreasonable. One assumes that other reasonable terms of occupation would be a contract breaking, evictable tenant. Operating a business from domestic premises, for instance, especially something to cause distress to fellow tenants, such as working as a prostitute. It would be unreasonable for a court to uphold the offender's rights to retain occupation in all circumstances.

housing lawyer, not officer

Just an update to say that there is no further news. Ann is still looking for somewhere to move to, Betsy seems OK at the moment. I have rehearsed a number of contingencies based on the comments in the thread, and I am planning to serve notice on Ann on the next rent day unless she finds somewhere in the meantime. My hope is that everything can remain peaceful until Ann vacates.

@roomtomove

A good landlord should be able to enforce rules with confidence and assertiveness. You really need to up your game OP because otherwise you will lose your good loyal tenants and have tenants instead who disrespect you and your property.

I moved out of two hmos from landlords like this. It isn't fun.

A good landlord should be able to enforce their contract within the bounds of the law with assertiveness and confidence. Only a bad landlord would enforce rules that weren’t a part of the contract.

Thanks for the update, OP. I hope the situation continues this way.

Fingers crossed .

But Omg the MN dumbfuck brigade, who just refuse to understand that an English landlord has no jurisdiction over tenants. It is begin procedures to evict or nothing. Rachmann casts a long shadow.

A good landlord should be able to enforce rules with confidence and assertiveness
You say landlord but I think what you really mean is head prefect in a girls boarding school?

Unfortunately that isn't the law. He is a guest of a legal tenant. The only legal route to remove him would be to evict the tenant whose guest he is and, if she drags her feet about being evicted, that could easily take 18 months.

^Sadly, legally this is the case. It’s very inconsiderate of Ann and her bf but she’s within her rights. You’ll need to start eviction proceedings against Ann, that’s the only way. If it takes 18 months, as appears likely, then Betsy will want to move out long before that point.

@Mittens030869

*Unfortunately that isn't the law. He is a guest of a legal tenant. The only legal route to remove him would be to evict the tenant whose guest he is and, if she drags her feet about being evicted, that could easily take 18 months.*

^Sadly, legally this is the case. It’s very inconsiderate of Ann and her bf but she’s within her rights. You’ll need to start eviction proceedings against Ann, that’s the only way. If it takes 18 months, as appears likely, then Betsy will want to move out long before that point.

Is it still the case in a house share, where all facilities are communal/shared?
Seems odd, when you could think you're sharing with 5 people and end up sharing with 10+ What a nightmare.

Is it still the case in a house share, where all facilities are communal/shared?
Seems odd, when you could think you're sharing with 5 people and end up sharing with 10+
What a nightmare.

In a situation where the Landlord has separate contracts with each tenant, it's possible that the Landlord contractually promises to one tenant that the house will only ever have 5 female people in it while signing contracts with other tenants that allow more than that. But it's unlikely that's the situation. More likely is that, contractually, Betsy has no legal right to expect the house to be free of men nor of people who aren't tenants. That is a risk in almost every situation when you share a home with others.

That's such crap. I've lived in one-room tenancies before and it's very common to have clauses about people staying over. it's perfectly legal.

The OP seems to be handling the situation fine. Some of the advice on here has been utterly bonkers.

@Mittens030869

*Unfortunately that isn't the law. He is a guest of a legal tenant. The only legal route to remove him would be to evict the tenant whose guest he is and, if she drags her feet about being evicted, that could easily take 18 months.*

^Sadly, legally this is the case. It’s very inconsiderate of Ann and her bf but she’s within her rights. You’ll need to start eviction proceedings against Ann, that’s the only way. If it takes 18 months, as appears likely, then Betsy will want to move out long before that point.

There is no such thing as a "guest" in either the law of landlord and tenant or iccuoiers' liability. The term is "invitee", and the legal consequences that flow from that invitation are quite distinct.

#occupiers liability.

I was going by them being tenants and not licencees or lodgers. I’ve been a licencee and a lodger (landlady being resident with several lodgers) and there were strict conduct; we definitely couldn’t have overnight visitors!

My understanding was that tenants have rights over their living space and that there’s very little landlords can do apart from taking steps to evict. But maybe the rules over the communal areas are different? I’m not legally trained, though, I’m happy to be told this isn’t how it is.

@BoomBoomsCousin

Is it still the case in a house share, where all facilities are communal/shared? Seems odd, when you could think you're sharing with 5 people and end up sharing with 10+ What a nightmare.

In a situation where the Landlord has separate contracts with each tenant, it's possible that the Landlord contractually promises to one tenant that the house will only ever have 5 female people in it while signing contracts with other tenants that allow more than that. But it's unlikely that's the situation. More likely is that, contractually, Betsy has no legal right to expect the house to be free of men nor of people who aren't tenants. That is a risk in almost every situation when you share a home with others.

Betsy has every legal right to expect that if thars what her contract states. The lease is joint and several, so presumably she has signed a joint lease with named Co-tenants. But there could also be a legal enforcable pre contractual statement as to it being a single sex household. So Betsy can claim breach of contract on thuse grounds. Not that if would help her that much.

Breach of these lease conditions doesn't justify eviction, but because its an hmo, I'd argue for an overall frustration of contract due to illegality as its a criminal offence to breach hmo licensing conditions.

The local authority also has powers to close an illegally operating hmo and to effectively cause the eviction of all tenants. I wonder whether it might actually move things along to get the hmo unit involved to visit the property to investigate. Goodness knows, the licensing fees paid by landlords are enough to expect something back.

There is no such thing as a "guest" in either the law of landlord and tenant or iccuoiers' liability. The term is "invitee", and the legal consequences that flow from that invitation are quite distinct.

Thank you Greenland - I was just about to post that a PP had made a distinction between the two upthread (possibly yourself).

Being a landlord (if done legally, ethically and responsibly) is a bloomin' minefield, it seems.

Oh, for the good old days where the LL just send in a couple of heavies to take all the doors, internal and external, off the property and force the tenants out!