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Original poster

Houseshare problems - tenant's new boyfriend refuses to leave

647 replies

FirstAvenue · 15/03/2021 16:05

Name changed, looking for advice here. I'll try not to go into too much detail.

I own a five bedroom house in a town a fair distance away and I let out four bedrooms under Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreements. It's an all female house as I have found that way it is generally easier to manage from a distance.

I do everything as professionally as possible, I advertise empty rooms, take references from applicants, tell them the house rules and give the tenants a proper tenancy agreement which states that they have exclusive use of their bedroom and shared use of the communal areas.

One of the House rules states: "Your room is for single occupancy only and boyfriends / girlfriends etc. should only really stay every other weekend." Now it's not that I am a prude, it's just that I have learnt from previous bad experiences that the house becomes overcrowded and untidy and generally starts to smell if the house is over-occupied. It's very hard to let a room if the house smells.

One of the girls, let's call her Ann, got a new boyfriend about six months ago and recently he appears to have "moved in". She says he has not and that she is aware of the house rules, but he is "always there" despite him living nearby. Unfortunately it is not just a case of staying in her room, he seems to spend most of the time watching TV in the living room and has even set his laptop up in the kitchen.

One of the other girls, let's call her Betsy, has complained about his continued presence. Betsy says that she took the house on the basis that it was girls only, and that she feels uncomfortable with him being in the house all the time in his dressing gown.

I've asked Ann to stick to the house rules and to make sure he only stays ever other weekend, and she has at various times in the last two weeks a) denied that he stays there in the week, b) says he does stay over sometimes but the other girls don't mind, or c) says that he is her partner and she wants him to stay as much as possible. It is clear that she is not telling the truth.

Betsy however made a further formal complaint to me last Tuesday, and after a number of texts and phone calls to Ann during which time the boyfriend did not depart, last Friday I had to write an email to Ann asking her to make sure that house rules are obeyed and that her boyfriend only stays two nights a fortnight. I did not get a reply.

Betsy went away for the weekend but when she arrived back last night the boyfriend was there and he was still there this morning. She is now dreading going back home this evening, and it is my understanding that he has now stayed there for 11 consecutive nights. Betsy is now asking me what she should do if he is still there this evening.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to resolve this?

OP posts:

Viviennemary · 16/03/2021 11:18

Under lockdown rules I'd say the boyfriend is committing an offence. If they are in the UK.

Lineofconcepcion · 16/03/2021 11:19

And make sure you receive notice from Ann in written form, as this cannot then be rescinded.

PlanetPuddle · 16/03/2021 11:21

Does 6 months include if they break the tenancy agreement? That's awful. I'd serve notice straight away and as PP have said call police non emergancy and see what you can do. Let Betsy know.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 16/03/2021 11:50

@PlanetPuddle

Does 6 months include if they break the tenancy agreement? That's awful. I'd serve notice straight away and as PP have said call police non emergancy and see what you can do. Let Betsy know.

Did you miss all the other PPs telling OP why that isnt feasible?

PlanetPuddle · 16/03/2021 11:53

Yes sorry. That will teach me to read every single post on a 21 page thread next time.

OllyBJolly · 16/03/2021 11:57

Yes sorry. That will teach me to read every single post on a 21 page thread next time

RTFT would mean you wouldn't look so silly when you give ridiculous advice.

PlanetPuddle · 16/03/2021 12:02

I know! I wasn't joking. I am sorry and I was saying if a thread is 21 pages long I should read all the posts throughly! No need to be nasty!

PlanetPuddle · 16/03/2021 12:07

I clicked last instead of next and didn't notice I'd missed a chunk. I'll go read it all now. Thanks.

LangClegsInSpace · 16/03/2021 12:15

@DorisLessingsCat

Ann has agreed to vacate as soon as reasonably possible. I've said I won't hold her to her notice period and will write a good reference if she finds somewhere quickly and sticks to the "rules" in the meantime.

Please just cover yourself and issue a section 21! It starts the clock.

But first check the HMO rules for your local authority!

If the property is in a LA that requires licencing of all HMOs with 3 or more tenants, and you don't have a licence, then:

you cannot serve a valid S21
each of your tenants can apply for a rent repayment order for up to 12 months rent
you can be prosecuted

Graphista · 16/03/2021 13:22

If the ring camera is placed as they normally are at the front door I don't see why that would be considered a problem by anyone.

In this instance it would show op who is coming/going from and staying in the property but it doesn't need to be inside the property to do that

Single sex - from what I read last night single sex occupation doesn't only need to cover housing for the vulnerable but it may depend what part of the Uk the property is in

@SchadenfreudePersonified my thoughts on why op is reluctant to move on evicting range from a lack of confidence to being afraid due to Ann holding something over her, perhaps even a threat of some kind?

Most threads on renting / landlords always go on about how it's the tenants home and they can do what they like, entitlement to quiet enjoyment

That IS my stance and has been throughout, but from the perspective of the THREE other tenants in the house aren't getting quiet enjoyment of THEIR home due to non paying person being ever bloody present!

But it's Betsy's home, too

Exactly!

We would only have asked the landlord to intervene as a last resort.

We don't know that's not the case here, Betsy might have been trying to deal with Ann and her boyfriends crappy behaviour for ages but op is only being alerted now

If OP isn't very careful she's going to end up losing good tenants and getting stuck with a really bad one

Not only this, there's the potential of op ending up with 4 "Ann's" in the property which she doesn't want and was wanting to avoid from the start

I think everyone on this thread is on Team Betsy

I don't! There are at least 2 appear to be team Ann!

@IrmaFayLear sorry you went through that, sadly far from uncommon! I've had times where I similarly secured my room because I didn't feel safe it's horrible!

Ann has agreed to vacate as soon as reasonably possible

Well that's a "how long is a piece of string" idea isn't it?

I've said I won't hold her to her notice period and will write a good reference if she finds somewhere quickly and sticks to the "rules" in the meantime.

Hopefully that works in your and betsys favour - in your position I'd still start eviction procedures though, Ann has hardly proved trustworthy though has she?

It starts the clock. exactly

Who advised you op? Not all advice is good advice even when from lawyers (learned that the hard way during my divorce, discovered several things my first lawyer had told me were total nonsense!)

SchadenfreudePersonified · 16/03/2021 13:35

Ann has agreed to vacate as soon as reasonably possible

Well that's a "how long is a piece of string" idea isn't it?

Indeed.

It is up there with "I'll pay you back when I can.", and "I'll tidy up when I have time," Judge Rinder would toss it out of court with a hollow laugh.

There really needs to be a time limit.

An eviction order, (in case she doesn't shift out at all) plus an agreement with Ann that if she is out within (say) 6 weeks then she will get a good reference and not be expected to pay the rent to the end of her present tenancy agreement. It's very possible that Ann and her Romeo will have split up before the end of the eviction period (or he will find himself another girlfriend when she can no longer offer him free bed and boar) and she will want to stop in the house.

Don't let her. This will happen again. And again. And again.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 16/03/2021 13:36

*free bed and board, not free bed and boar

We do many things for a pig . . .

boredbuttercup · 16/03/2021 14:38

*If the ring camera is placed as they normally are at the front door I don't see why that would be considered a problem by anyone.

In this instance it would show op who is coming/going from and staying in the property but it doesn't need to be inside the property to do that*

Because there's a world of difference between an individual using a ring camera on their own home versus a landlord using one to spy on their tenants. If OP installed one and gave the use of it to the tenants it could arguably be for safety but if it's only there for the landlords benefit of surveillance than this can cross into harassment. If the landlord is using the surveillance camera to check up on and monitor the tenants private life this violates their right to privacy and quiet enjoyment of their home. As many PP have pointed out house 'rules' aren't actually legally enforceable so if op did install surveillance to try and enforce them this could easily be construed as harassment and the tenants could go after the landlord for it.

safariboot · 16/03/2021 15:12

we have a joint and several contract which seems different to OPs

Yes, that would make it very different. In a joint tenancy if one tenant wants a guest to stay and three want them to go, the three are in a strong position to get their way. But in OP's case Ann has an individual tenancy (with use of shared facilities), and with it can invite her guest.

Lorieandrews · 16/03/2021 15:24

You could evict her in two weeks for anti social behaviour. Under section 8.

bigdecisionstomake · 16/03/2021 15:33

@Lorieandrews

You could evict her in two weeks for anti social behaviour. Under section 8.

That's simply untrue. At the current time it will take a lot longer than 2 weeks to get a Section 8 to court, and in reality the anti-social behaviour has to be quite serious, usually involving criminal conviction or an injunction. It is a discretionary ground, and I can't imagine any judge on earth awarding possession based on a boyfriend staying over more than twice a week.

Nith · 16/03/2021 17:21

I don't understand people saying "call the police on him" . The boyfriend is not committing any offence.

Is he not committing an offence under the Covid laws?

Scarriff · 16/03/2021 17:34

Chiming in with everyone else. You need to get over there and supervise the boyfriend's departure, laptop and all. Make sure his stuff goes with him. Not much discussion needed. He doesn't live there. Out he goes.
Girlfriend gets notice. Tell her she can leave as soon as she likes. Any further problems there may be a problem with her deposit refund and references .Buy the other tenants some chocolates and apologise to them for the disturbance.

roxanne119 · 16/03/2021 17:45

If he has a property nearby why can’t they go there? I suspect I know the answer suspect he’s given this up 😳. I would give notice to the tenant and as she’s broken terms of her tenancy are you now in a position to refuse to have him there at all ? I think so if he’s making another tenant feel uncomfortable I think the answers yes .

minniemoocher · 16/03/2021 17:48

I should first investigate if it's legal to not allow overnight guests. I'm not sure you can stipulate overnight guests only every other week!

thecatneuterer · 16/03/2021 17:55

@Lorieandrews

You could evict her in two weeks for anti social behaviour. Under section 8.

No you couldn't. Firstly, that wouldn't be classed as antisocial behaviour. Secondly, even if it were, the two weeks is the notice period. After that a court hearing and bailiffs would be required - you're currently looking at around a year for that!

thecatneuterer · 16/03/2021 17:56

@minniemoocher

I should first investigate if it's legal to not allow overnight guests. I'm not sure you can stipulate overnight guests only every other week!

You can really put what you want in a contract. However if you try to enforce those clauses in court (ie get an eviction on those grounds) you would probably not be able to.

DRT · 16/03/2021 17:59

Are you a member of a landlord’s association? If not - join and they will give you current and legal advice. Under current restrictions you cannot just kick anyone out and you must have all the signed paperwork up to date and a trail of the things you have tried. If possible have a whole house meeting or WhatApp group where people cannot deny things n front of others who know the truth.

murbblurb · 16/03/2021 18:19

Not just 'current restrictions' - despite MN belief landlords can never kick anyone out and must always have the right paperwork. Landlords cannot end tenancies, only tenants can do that. Landlords can only request a court to end a tenancy.

AlfonsoTheTerrible · 16/03/2021 18:23

I'm glad that the situation is progressing, OP, and that Betsy is feeling more comfortable.

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