Houseshare problems - tenant's new boyfriend refuses to leave

[FirstAvenue]

Name changed, looking for advice here. I'll try not to go into too much detail.

I own a five bedroom house in a town a fair distance away and I let out four bedrooms under Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreements. It's an all female house as I have found that way it is generally easier to manage from a distance.

I do everything as professionally as possible, I advertise empty rooms, take references from applicants, tell them the house rules and give the tenants a proper tenancy agreement which states that they have exclusive use of their bedroom and shared use of the communal areas.

One of the House rules states: "Your room is for single occupancy only and boyfriends / girlfriends etc. should only really stay every other weekend." Now it's not that I am a prude, it's just that I have learnt from previous bad experiences that the house becomes overcrowded and untidy and generally starts to smell if the house is over-occupied. It's very hard to let a room if the house smells.

One of the girls, let's call her Ann, got a new boyfriend about six months ago and recently he appears to have "moved in". She says he has not and that she is aware of the house rules, but he is "always there" despite him living nearby. Unfortunately it is not just a case of staying in her room, he seems to spend most of the time watching TV in the living room and has even set his laptop up in the kitchen.

One of the other girls, let's call her Betsy, has complained about his continued presence. Betsy says that she took the house on the basis that it was girls only, and that she feels uncomfortable with him being in the house all the time in his dressing gown.

I've asked Ann to stick to the house rules and to make sure he only stays ever other weekend, and she has at various times in the last two weeks a) denied that he stays there in the week, b) says he does stay over sometimes but the other girls don't mind, or c) says that he is her partner and she wants him to stay as much as possible. It is clear that she is not telling the truth.

Betsy however made a further formal complaint to me last Tuesday, and after a number of texts and phone calls to Ann during which time the boyfriend did not depart, last Friday I had to write an email to Ann asking her to make sure that house rules are obeyed and that her boyfriend only stays two nights a fortnight. I did not get a reply.

Betsy went away for the weekend but when she arrived back last night the boyfriend was there and he was still there this morning. She is now dreading going back home this evening, and it is my understanding that he has now stayed there for 11 consecutive nights. Betsy is now asking me what she should do if he is still there this evening.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to resolve this?

🤣🤣🤣I didn’t mention taking men to be violent , is that what you do? I meant to escort him off the premises if he is still refusing to leave the premises.

@numberoneson and do you think the police will remove him from the property? On what grounds do you think?

And on what grounds would Betsy sue the landlord in this scenario? Do share . . .

@FirstAvenue

The advice I have received is that a S21 notice is only valid as from a particular rent day, can anyone confirm?

Pretty sure an HMO requires a section 8. And you can give less than 6 months notice in the case of anti social behaviour.

@Souther

Ann needs to leave. It uses to be so uncomfortable when one of my housemates would get a partner. Sometimes they would walk around in their boxers and spend the time lounging in the living room. If I've paid for a room, why should I feel too uncomfortable to go and even watch some TV for a bit. Its not fair on the others.

Maybe strengthen the rule. Women-only may attract people who have traumatic pasts and really don't welcome strange men with a sense of entitlement in shared areas, or in their dwelling overnight. What about a rule that guests do not enter shared spaces, nor stay overnight? It won't stop it, but a man who has had to be silently smuggled in will not feel free to burst into bathrooms, nor hang round the kitchen half dressed. I'm unsure why Ann doesn't go to the BF who lives nearby, and unsure that the suspension of eviction rules apply in cases where law breaking is involved (Covid19 has been a bonus for a landlady whose tenants were running a brothel, after police were called )

I lived in a girls hostel for a while when I was young. The rule was "no boys". That meant no boys were to set foot over the threshold, never mind staying overnight. The girls accepted it because they knew they were safe and there would be no strange men in the house. Maybe you'll have to introduce this, especially if you want Betsy to stay.

That’s the thing, you can’t introduce a rule, sell rooms to women on that basis, take their money then do nothing to enforce those rules. That’s not morally acceptable. It boils down to being a scam.

If you don’t want to enforce rules or can’t. Then don’t put them in place and don’t sell them to women under that basis.

It’s not ok.

Hated inconsiderate housemates like Ann. They always took over the communal areas, the bathroom, hung around like they owned the place. Moved out of many a place due to arseholes moving their shag du jour in. And they do increase the bills - they use the toilet, use the shower, the kettle, etc. Used to fuck me off because there was never half-time at his and half at hers.

I feel so sorry for Betsy.
She wanted to feel safe and secure and rented a room that would provide this.

She now finds this has all gone out the window because some bloody man has imposed himself via Ann right into the heart of the house, her home and he doesn't pay a penny.

If I was Betsy I would be beyond furious.

I believe by going softly, softly she has been mis sold by the OP.

OP I know you feel you are doing what you can but the truth is Betsy has been hugely imposed upon.

Ann shouldn't get her deposit or a reference.
She knew bloody well what she was doing, she knows bloody well what she signed up to, but is one of life's selfish madams that doesn't give a damn.

I shared a couple of houses with girls 35 years ago and we were so considerate of each other.
We wouldn't have accepted anything less from each other either.

Ann has broken the rules that were conditional on getting the rule.

Keep at least part of her deposit and refund Betsy.

@DifficultBloodyWoman The grounds for ASTs in HMOs are the same. A s8 is no quicker than a s21 and unless there are greater than 6 months of rent arrears, a notice using s8 requires 6 months notice.

People should not guess the law it's a really stupid thing to do.

The day on which notices should be served vary depending upon whether its within the fixed term or not. If you use the statutory form 6a, which you must if the tenancy commenced after 2015, it tells you. But the notice should expire on the day the rent is due or the day before and you will be safe either way.

@billy1966 you can't withold someone's deposit because their boyfriend has overstayed his welcome. That's illegal.

Why the fuck are people suggesting so many things which are outright illegal on this thread?!

Ann and her boyfriend are inconsiderate twats but they're not breaking any tenancy laws or breaching the terms of their contract - which is different from house rules.

The OP can't break the law to force them out or withold money or charge more or move herself in or get some heavies over.

The only thing the OP can do to remove Ann is serve Ann notice. She can offer Betsy a discount or allow her to leave with no notice etc if she wishes. But she can't force Ann out of her home without following proper procedure.

@Singlenotsingle

I lived in a girls hostel for a while when I was young. The rule was "no boys". That meant no boys were to set foot over the threshold, never mind staying overnight. The girls accepted it because they knew they were safe and there would be no strange men in the house. Maybe you'll have to introduce this, especially if you want Betsy to stay.

A hostel is a very different animal to a let house. The OP has no legal right to enforce visitation rules in this situation.

Well if Ann has had someone staying in the house, completely against the rules, using the facilities day in, day out when he is not a tenant and breaking the agreement, I certainly don't see why she shouldn't have some of her deposit deducted.

I certainly don't see why she should get a reference either.

Deposit deductions are for proven costs of making repairs to damage tenants caused. Not for landlords to impose quasi-fines at will.

@billy1966

Well if Ann has had someone staying in the house, completely against the rules, using the facilities day in, day out when he is not a tenant and breaking the agreement, I certainly don't see why she shouldn't have some of her deposit deducted.

I certainly don't see why she should get a reference either.

Random illegal deductions like this are why there are now deposit protection schemes and the likes.

Landlords can’t just go around keeping some money because they don’t like a tenants behaviour.

Well if Ann has had someone staying in the house, completely against the rules, using the facilities day in, day out when he is not a tenant and breaking the agreement, I certainly don't see why she shouldn't have some of her deposit deducted.

Well it's certainly a good thing you're not a landlord then because that is against the law. And it would certainly be a good thing if you didn't go giving bad legal advice that you have no idea about to people in genuine predicaments and try and encourage them to break the law to fit your ideas of what's right and wrong which have no basis in law.

I never said it was legal advice.
I have never mentioned legal advice.
I just expressed an opinion.
That's all.

People express opinions on MN.

We don't have to be lawyers to do that.

@FirstAvenue

The advice I have received is that a S21 notice is only valid as from a particular rent day, can anyone confirm?

Yes, that was the advice I read when I was looking to evict a tennant. I forget the detail though, sorry.

I agree with this idea. Give Ann her eviction notice as it shows you mean business. If they're uni students, perhaps inform the university of the ongoing problem. The university will get involved.

*Ann has broken the rules that were conditional on getting the rule.

Keep at least part of her deposit and refund Betsy.*

That's not you expressing your opinion. That's you telling the OP what to do. Which would be totally illegal, so yes, that's very bad advice, not just an opinion.

@coffeewithcream

I agree with this idea. Give Ann her eviction notice as it shows you mean business. If they're uni students, perhaps inform the university of the ongoing problem. The university will get involved.

No the University will not get involved, Anne has not broke any tenancy laws, pear clutching on here is laughable, Betsy wants to get a grip and mind her own business.

The university Maybe call her mother, too? Or write to your local MP

That said, you have no right to insist that he only comes around every other weekend. Once or twice a week is perfectly reasonable to see your boyfriend / girlfriend. 11 consecutive days is taking the piss.

Does the boyfriend not have a home; why doesn’t Anne stay at his?

Pop round the house and catch the free loader. Say as he has stayed at the house so much you are owed rent for the last six months. Give him a bill, a big fat juicy big one. That should get rid of him. Or tell Ann she owes double the rent for him. You won't get it but it may scare them into behaving. Also give her notice to go.

Sleep with the boyfriend.

@BadLad - award for the most creative solution!