To feed my 1 year old outside

[Dandylioness1]

My son is 13 months old.

I met my friend for a walk in the park this morning.

Her daughter is 2 years old.

We’d been walking a while and my son started to become unsettled and was asking for “boob boob”

I told my friend I’d stop at the next bench and let him have some milk.

She seemed mortified by this idea. She asked me if I could give him some water instead and that he was too old for me to be feeding him in public.

I told her I would be discreet about it but she said it was just about being discreet and that it’s also an issue that he’s 13 months and doesn’t need breastmilk, she said I should offer him water or a snack instead.

I ignored what she said I found a place to sit and let my son have some milk.

It’s made me feel pretty bad now and as a first time mum (who’s spent my sons first year in a global pandemic and lockdowns) i feel like I’m doing it all wrong. 🙁

AIBU to feed him on demand at this age?

@Wondermule I haven’t done anything of the kind, so not sure what that has to do with me.

It’s shitty to imply that breastfeeding mothers prioritise breastfeeding as a box ticking exercise over happiness and enjoyment in their babies. That may have been your experience, and if it was then I’m very sorry. But it’s not a reasonable or fair insinuation to extrapolate to others.

@breadbinbaby

I’m certainly not an unhappy soul, on the contrary! I am however, deeply uncomfortable with mis-representing and extrapolating data, as is often the case when it comes to the discussing the benefits of breastfeeding.

[quote CreosoteQueen]@Wondermule I haven’t done anything of the kind, so not sure what that has to do with me.

It’s shitty to imply that breastfeeding mothers prioritise breastfeeding as a box ticking exercise over happiness and enjoyment in their babies. That may have been your experience, and if it was then I’m very sorry. But it’s not a reasonable or fair insinuation to extrapolate to others.[/quote]
Apart from I didn’t say that did I 🙄

I said mums that really struggle to breastfeed shouldn’t feel pressure to continue and damage their mental health and baby days, because the health benefits aren’t so great (or even really noticeable) that it is worth it.

My experience was fab, although I know it suits your narrative to imply otherwise. Would you like me to make up a sob story?

[quote FloconDeNeige]@breadbinbaby

I’m certainly not an unhappy soul, on the contrary! I am however, deeply uncomfortable with mis-representing and extrapolating data, as is often the case when it comes to the discussing the benefits of breastfeeding.[/quote]
You’ve done quite a lot of misrepresenting data and facts yourself here about the benefits of breastfeeding.

If in the future, sufficient new research demonstrates unequivocal, statistically significant data on the wide-scale tangible benefits of breastfeeding, then I’ll be very happy to accept it. But we are not there at the moment.

The thing about science is it’s true whether or not you believe in it.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding/breastfeeding/benefits/

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.unicef.org.uk/babyfriendly/about/benefits-of-breastfeeding/amp/

kellymom.com/pregnancy/bf-prep/bf-benefits/

[quote CreosoteQueen]If in the future, sufficient new research demonstrates unequivocal, statistically significant data on the wide-scale tangible benefits of breastfeeding, then I’ll be very happy to accept it. But we are not there at the moment.

The thing about science is it’s true whether or not you believe in it.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding/breastfeeding/benefits/

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.unicef.org.uk/babyfriendly/about/benefits-of-breastfeeding/amp/

kellymom.com/pregnancy/bf-prep/bf-benefits/[/quote]
But those articles don’t quantify. We aren’t saying breast milk doesn’t have benefits. We are saying simply stating the benefits without quantifying them are misleading as they’re very small. How many times

And I don’t know why it matters if the UK has low breastfeeding rates. So what? We don’t have enough conclusive data to say that it makes a real tangible difference in the long-term.

So if you like breastfeeding then great, go ahead and do it. And if you don’t, also great; you are not doing your child a disservice and it doesn’t make you an inferior mother.

Apart from I didn’t say that did I

You have a short memory. Your exact words were ‘But i think people who find it very difficult are sacrificing enjoyment of their newborn, and special memories, for the sake of mentally box ticking.’

We aren’t saying breast milk doesn’t have benefits.

At least one member of that ‘we’ certainly did say that.

Could Mumsnet step in again? Some people really need to get a grip and stop using fancy words to beat down everyone else that dares to challenge them. There is a distinct and awful lack of respect shown for mothers on this thread.

And if you don’t, also great; you are not doing your child a disservice and it doesn’t make you an inferior mother.

Absolutely no one has said this. It is an interesting reflection of your own perceptions though.

@CreosoteQueen

Apart from I didn’t say that did I

You have a short memory. Your exact words were ‘But i think people who find it very difficult are sacrificing enjoyment of their newborn, and special memories, for the sake of mentally box ticking.’

Yes. I didn’t say all breastfeeding mothers, which is what you implied above. If breastfeeding is going well and are happy, then it’s undoubtedly the best method

@CreosoteQueen

You quote Neil deGrasse Tyson and then link to Kellymom?!

And what wondermule said; it’s not a simple question of simply stating benefits, they need to be quantified. And they are so small that you need to look at the population level to see them. And some are conflicting and contradictory too. Not all science is equal.

Not all science is equal.

Quite. The NHS’s, for example, is probably better than yours, which has been a bit shaky to say the least.

@FloconDeNeige

Why do these debates always end up with someone going below the belt like this and resorting to ‘ner-ner-ner-ner-ner you’re more likely to die of cancer than me cos you didn’t breastfeed and I did’?

Truly disgusting.

I have had breast cancer - hopefully I won't die of it just yet awhile. I breast fed for extended periods and still needed chemotherapy.... I still understand that breastfeeding reduces the lifetime risk of breast cancer. There are several protective factors that kick in after a year of breastfeeding - not least milk production protects the breast, as does having reduced menstruation.

Interestingly being overweight reduces your risk or pre-menopausal cancer significantly. Obesity has been found to be associated with a 20% decreased risk of breast tumors that express hormone receptors (about 80% of all tumours).

In post menopausal women obesity does increase risk - but post menopausal women are not generally breast feeding.

Its not truly disgusting to offer factual information. It allows women to make a choice after weighing up all the considerations.

@breadbinbaby

Not all science is equal.

Quite. The NHS’s, for example, is probably better than yours, which has been a bit shaky to say the least.

The NHS haven’t quantified either.

@Dandylioness1 I think you’re doing just fine without your mum groups...

I have a feeling they wouldn’t be as beneficial to you anyway. Not for what you were looking for on here.

"But tell me, what are the distinct advantages of breastmilk-derived oligosaccharides over formula-derived oligosaccharides?"

If you cared to actually look into it, you'd find out that the two artificially made oligosaccharides that they put in infant formula are not found in human milk and research has shown that they don't actually do very much at all (except perhaps look good on the box).

The more than 200 oligosaccharides in human milk, however, feed the "good" bacteria in the gut, bind to pathogens, and perform many other antimicrobial and immune-modulating functions, which are still being researched.

I don’t think I’ve read here or anywhere else that FF mother’s are ‘inferior’ I certainly didn’t feel inferior switching from breast to formula.

This thread is strictly seemingly bashing mothers who chose to feed their child how nature intended. It’s not hell on earth for mother’s to use a tool (FF) instead of doing it themselves. Just like other tools we use as humans, some have can negative impact on our health which we weight up as sentient beings. If you could see the entire spectrum of radiation with your eyeballs you’d be blinded in your own living room. All tools we use have benefits and drawbacks, just like FF it’s not BFing mothers fault those exist.

It’s insulting to assume every mother who’s breastfeeding isn’t clued up, doesn’t have all the facts or is just being a martyr trying to make other mothers feel bad (all things you’ve actually said on this thread).

The NHS haven’t quantified either.

I make that better science than pulling a quantity (zero) out your arse then having to back down on it ten minutes later like our friend the good doctor here.

The NHS promotes healthcare at a population level. Everyone is free to read and appraise the scientific studies cited and apply (or not) the conclusions to their individual situations.

All Wondermule and I have tried to promote here is a more balanced view of the available facts and research. It’s really quite baffling that it makes some of you froth at the mouth. I don’t understand why.

How did this end up a BF vs FF thread? Seriously.

I’ve ‘extended’ BF to over 3 years old & also FF from practically day one. When I was FF I did think it was a bit ‘icky’ to BF a toddler but when I was doing it, it was the most natural thing in the world. So I can see both sides.

It definitely isn’t all down to luck as I was absolutely determined I would BF my second child. That’s a really daft thing to say.

It’s undeniable that BF is better nutritionally for the baby?! Does it make me feel guilty that I FF my first child - no! Because I’m a bloody good mum.

God the way this goes on mumsnet is tedious.

Far be it from me to lecture, but breastfeeding also reduces the risk of postnatal depression by around 50%.

Breastfeeding has been demonstrated to enhance interactions between mothers and babies: mothers who breastfeed show increased physiological and social responsiveness to their babies. Breastfed babies have been shown to be more alert and responsive and more reciprocity and affection has been observed in breastfeeding dyads.

That rather counters the suggestion that, "I think people who find it very difficult are sacrificing enjoyment of their newborn, and special memories, for the sake of mentally box ticking." Breastfeeding can improve the enjoyment and reduces stress but some do find it hard, for all sorts of reasons. I'm sure nobody doubts that increasing support for new mothers would improve breastfeeding rates long term. Neither would most people think improved support was a bad thing.

All Wondermule and I have tried to promote here is a more balanced view of the available facts and research.

That’s demonstrably untrue. You, for example, characterised a poster factually citing that the WHO states a reduced risk of certain cancers to mothers who breastfeed as ‘ner ner ner you’re more likely to die of cancer than me cos you didn’t breastfeed and I did’. In what universe is that a balanced view of the facts and research available?

Gin! Gin! Anybody?