To think the PA "you're welcome" is actually far ruder

[Chuckitout]

than absent mindedly neglecting to say thank you?

I like to think my manners are fairly acceptable, I try to see polite and put people at ease. However, today I was the recipient of the PA "you're welcome" when I neglected to acknowledge someone who held the door for me. As it happened, I was distracted, I'd just heard that DH's illness is terminal and was wondering how on earth I was going to tell DC.

Of course I should have said thank you, but what was muttering "you're welcome" at me supposed to achieve?

Yes, it would be good if everyone always remembered their thank yous, but I'm prepared to bet that the majority who have a momentary lapse and don't meet your standards are equally distracted, even if it's "only" about what to get for tea after a long day.

Going out of your way to deliberately make someone feel bad is surely far ruder?

If you must, feel smug inside about your superior manners, but don't kid yourself you're the better person if you deliberately act to show someone up.

Also am I the only person who never knows when you are supposed to hold the door for someone coming in the other direction? I'll go out of my way to avoid a door with someone coming the other way because people can be so awful when you get it wrong.

I'm really sorry about your news, OP

To me, this discussion is quite culturally specific and is interesting for that reason. I lived in England for several years and now live elsewhere, and when I lived in England I was struck by how uncomfortable displays of 'good manners' made me feel. For example, people seemed to feel the need to hold doors open well ahead of when I was actually approaching, or move out of the pavement when there was plenty of room for two people to pass each other (pre-Covid). DH and I would often be puzzled by this. To us, these gestures often had an exaggerated, almost performative feel about them, as if the person doing it really wanted their act to be acknowledged or felt put out by it. But I don't think it's that necessarily. I think there is something ingrained in the culture of England about how people should behave in public, and this to me feels less like it comes from a place of genuine graciousness than a place of rigid social expectation.

Being foreign to this culture, I did aspects of it quite stifling e.g. at work, if you were making a tea, it was the norm to ask who else was making one, and if you didn't, comments would be made about you. These behaviours to me feel more like an imposition than good manners, because one person has initiated something and I'm expected to reciprocate in a predetermined way. In the country I'm in now, people sometimes open doors but often don't - there are simply less expectations about how everyone should behave in public.

*find aspects

Totally with you OP.

I routinely hold open doors and move out of the way for people. I do it cause I'm nice, cause its the right thing to do.

I don't do it cause I want other peoples gratitude. That's just strange - all those people who do it and get the hump when they aren't thanked - how have you managed to make a nice action into something weird and all about you and your feelings??

The "you're welcome" school of thought are chronically lacking in empathy. Surely it doesn't take much imagination to see that otherwise kind, decent people might occasionally not say thank you.

And I say this as a very polite person.

@SnuggyBuggy

It's a bit narcissistic though, surely logically you know that the rude person is more likely to have been absent minded or distracted rather than personally slighting you?

Some of the most vile behaviour I've seen has been from people who are "in the right" morally or etiquette wise but boy don't they know it and absolutely revel in it.

^^ yes, this.

Very well put.

Totally agreee with op regardless of circumstances, if you want to hold a door or walk single file, do. Being thanked is nice and usually I notice the favour and thank people but I always get really annoyed when I’m being shouted at for someone else’s choice. They might as well go ahead and barge past , the outcome is exactly the same which is that I’m upset.

@SellFridges

I think it reminds people to use their manners. I end up using it every day as I pull my five year old into the road to avoid older couples (sorry, they are almost always retired people) who will not walk in single file to allow us all to distance on the pavement. They usually wake up and say thank you or amend their behaviour so it works.

I’ve never done it but get why you have! Maybe people are so sick of walking into the road with young children (and I agree, it does seem to be older couples) after a year of this, that people’s frustrations boil over. My mum always says you don’t know what someone is going through. Obviously in your case OP it is true but I do think a lot of people seem to lack basic manners.

@DrJamesSheppard

I'm really sorry about your news, OP

To me, this discussion is quite culturally specific and is interesting for that reason. I lived in England for several years and now live elsewhere, and when I lived in England I was struck by how uncomfortable displays of 'good manners' made me feel. For example, people seemed to feel the need to hold doors open well ahead of when I was actually approaching, or move out of the pavement when there was plenty of room for two people to pass each other (pre-Covid). DH and I would often be puzzled by this. To us, these gestures often had an exaggerated, almost performative feel about them, as if the person doing it really wanted their act to be acknowledged or felt put out by it. But I don't think it's that necessarily. I think there is something ingrained in the culture of England about how people should behave in public, and this to me feels less like it comes from a place of genuine graciousness than a place of rigid social expectation.

Being foreign to this culture, I did aspects of it quite stifling e.g. at work, if you were making a tea, it was the norm to ask who else was making one, and if you didn't, comments would be made about you. These behaviours to me feel more like an imposition than good manners, because one person has initiated something and I'm expected to reciprocate in a predetermined way. In the country I'm in now, people sometimes open doors but often don't - there are simply less expectations about how everyone should behave in public.

The opposite is felt by us when we go elsewhere. We lived abroad for a couple of year and drove frequently - the culture on the roads was brutal - no one allowed anyone to pull out - put an indicator on to change lanes and people would pass you. I don't know how traffic would move in London if there wasn't the frequent courtesy of allowing people to pull out. Of course you get some arses but generally in London, traffic moves more freely because people allow others in and are thanked for doing so.