To find snobbery around vocabulary very silly?

[crayolacom]

I too don't particularly like the idea of regional dialects and differences disappearing, but language does change and everyone should just deal with it!

I wonder if Shakespeare would be moaning about the modern lexicon if he was alive!

The only thing I get annoyed with are where accents/dialects etc cause problems with communication.

Having a strong regional accent is fine for that region and for social/family occasions, but it's not fine for professional/work settings.

If you're working in a call centre, talking to people from all over the UK (and maybe abroad), you really need to have a clear voice and clear pronunciation etc and don't use regional terms. Likewise even face to face communication where accents/dialects etc can cause misunderstandings etc.

[quote PoochiePlush]@sanityisamyth

Yes you're right, it should be "Freddie went to the park with Jacob and me" it was a copy and paste error!

Anyway thanks to the non-English speaker who said my post was helpful.

This link is quite useful and explains it there than me!

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/blog.publoft.com/john-and-i-or-me-rules-made-simple/amp/[/quote]

It was a good post up until that point! That's the way I do it too. Remove the other person and see if it makes sense. (Freddie and) I went to the shops etc.

@Kazzyhoward I went to uni in Scotland and had a friend with a Scottish accent. I didn't think it was particularly strong. When I came home for the summer, she came to stay for a bit. We went to the stables (in Dorset) and we were chatting to the yard owners. They had a West Country accent, again I didn't think it was particularly strong. However, neither party could understand the other and I was literally having to translate English into English for them to both understand. Was very surreal!

I hate 'gunna' for going to.

Wow, the underlying hibernophobia reared its ugly head pretty early in this thread! A bit of racism (aks/ axe) and classism for good measure too. Considering how many Mumsnetters were fine with Pontins banning vast swathes of Irish people (and how how quick the thread had to be deleted for racism), I don’t know why I’m so surprised...

The Irish for H is pronounced haysh. Haysh plus aitch equals haitch.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiberno-English

@imyournextdoorneighbour

I am tolerant about regional accents.

How very kind of you.

@StillCoughingandLaughing

‘Off of’ drives me mad. There’s no need for the ‘of’!! And it sounds so clumsy that I just can’t understand how people don’t know it’s wrong.

In speech or text?

My bloody phone auto 'corrects' & it's a PITA as it does not have a good grip on these things, same with to/too 🤦🏻‍♀️

@SimonJT. Hold the letter key down & it'll give you options to get accents etc

The vile Mail had 'off of' in a headline a week or so ago. Tooth grinder. As is 'for free.

I don’t understand the confusion over haitch and aitch.
The letter H is spelled aitch. It’s in the dictionary. So it should be pronounced aitch.

Other words that begin with A are apple, act, and, apparent.
You wouldn’t pronounce them happle, hact, hand, happarent would you? So why say haitch when it’s spelled aitch?

The ones that annoy me the most are Americanisms. There’s been a perception that sounding American makes people “cool” , which I suppose comes from it being so big and powerful, and all the films and music and so on. People starting to say “gotten”, when they’ve said “got” all their lives, drives me crazy. And when they try to say it’s old English, ill-gotten gains etc etc, that’s just pathetic. We all know it comes from watching too much YouTube and Netflix, and trying to sound cool!

@Bagamoyo1 I literally just explained where it comes from, as have many other posters.

It's not a load of bollocks at all. Even if we just concentrate on accent, I can't believe anyone would try to claim that accent is classless. For example are you claiming there's no difference between a posh London accent and a cockney one then? Or would you say there is a difference but you'd claim it was entirey based on your location within London and nothing to do with your family or social class?

Regional accents give me a warm feeling about a person. It shows they are authentic and being themselves. Conversely I have to try very hard not to stereotype people with a 'posh London accent' as snobs who feel they are superior to everyone else.
People would know from my accent where I grew up (not where I now live) and I am proud of my heritage.
I have a degree and a senior position in a top company. I say this to make a point but really, if I worked in a shop or a bar I'd be just as valuable a person in society.

Comments like
I am tolerant about regional accents
remind me why I have to work so hard not to judge people with 'posh' accents as being superior snobs

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

The officially correct version is, ‘I used not to...(whatever)’ As dinged into us endlessly by our DF donkey’s years ago.

Not any more it isn't.

The letter H is spelled aitch. It’s in the dictionary. So it should be pronounced aitch.
The alternative spelling haitch is also listed in dictionaries.

I have only read a little of this thread but ‘gotten’ is my latest bugbear on here.

@Bagamoyo1

I don’t understand the confusion over haitch and aitch. The letter H is spelled aitch. It’s in the dictionary. So it should be pronounced aitch. Other words that begin with A are apple, act, and, apparent. You wouldn’t pronounce them happle, hact, hand, happarent would you? So why say haitch when it’s spelled aitch?

The ones that annoy me the most are Americanisms. There’s been a perception that sounding American makes people “cool” , which I suppose comes from it being so big and powerful, and all the films and music and so on. People starting to say “gotten”, when they’ve said “got” all their lives, drives me crazy. And when they try to say it’s old English, ill-gotten gains etc etc, that’s just pathetic. We all know it comes from watching too much YouTube and Netflix, and trying to sound cool!

How do you pronounce "hour" and "honest", out of curiosity?

@Twolostsoulsswimminginafishbow

I have only read a little of this thread but ‘gotten’ is my latest bugbear on here.

Should we perhaps insist that any Americans only use British English then?

@shouldistop

I am tolerant about regional accents but some things seriously wind me up, the worst one being the letter H. It is 'aitch' it is in the dictionary as 'aitch' so why tf do people say 'haitch'? No one says 'feff' for 'eff' or 'lel' for 'el'. So WHY haitch.

The irony is strong in your post

Glad I'm not the only one who thought this 😂

One of the things I like most about English dialects is that they are usually grammatically correct for that dialect. On fact, they often preserve grammatical distinctions that have been lost in standard English that add meaning and understanding, for instance, in the use of personal pronouns.(thee/dee;thine/dine).

But a sort of mishmash of American inflected "Pinglish" does not. eg "I've gotten" muddles the present tense with the past tense. Some American accents do of bourse preserve older forms of grammar too, but not geberally the ones that 0eople copy.

@GreenlandTheMovie
Americans have simply retained 'gotten' as a past participle of 'get'. 'Gotten' has also been retained in Ireland, at least in speech, as have older forms of language such as 'ye' for you plural.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'Pinglish'?

@GreenlandTheMovie

One of the things I like most about English dialects is that they are usually grammatically correct for that dialect. On fact, they often preserve grammatical distinctions that have been lost in standard English that add meaning and understanding, for instance, in the use of personal pronouns.(thee/dee;thine/dine).

But a sort of mishmash of American inflected "Pinglish" does not. eg "I've gotten" muddles the present tense with the past tense. Some American accents do of bourse preserve older forms of grammar too, but not geberally the ones that 0eople copy.

"I've gotten" is present perfect, the definition of which, grammatically, is "something which happened before the present (in linguistics "perfect"= before) and which has a connection to it. No muddling at all.

For all those interested in descriptivist language rather than prescriptivist, there's a lovely thread about regional lexical quirks ongoing. So far, despite various attempts, not derailed into "I don't say that so it's wrong".

"I've gotten" muddles the present tense with the past tense.

No it doesn't. It's a perfectly normal use of the present perfect tense, using the verb 'to have' with a past participle. It's just that in American English the past participle is 'gotten' and in English it's 'got'. If anything, the UK English version is more easily confused, because the past participle is identical to the preterite.

I've gotten so annoyed with people saying that gotten is just an "Americanism" that I'm going to make it my business to use it in every post. Why has it not gotten through people's thick skulls that gotten is used regularly in many parts of the UK?

@NuniaBeeswax

I've gotten so annoyed with people saying that gotten is just an "Americanism" that I'm going to make it my business to use it in every post. Why has it not gotten through people's thick skulls that gotten is used regularly in many parts of the UK?

Well I’ve been reading mumsnet for 15 years and I’ve only seen gotten in the last couple of years. Same with work - I’ve only heard it being used in the last couple of years. I’ve been alive 53 years and travelled fairly extensively in the UK, lived and worked in different places, and never heard gotten anywhere in the UK until recent years.

Oh well your "extensive travelling" clearly trumps people's experiences of having grown up and lived in places outside of the US where gotten is still used. I stand corrected.

Shame you couldn't find a spare five minutes in your 53 years of being alive to RTFT.