To find snobbery around vocabulary very silly?

[crayolacom]

I too don't particularly like the idea of regional dialects and differences disappearing, but language does change and everyone should just deal with it!

I wonder if Shakespeare would be moaning about the modern lexicon if he was alive!

Has anyone mentioned 'reverse snobbery' yet? I really dislike it - horrible memories of being called posh all through primary school (when you learn a foreign language you often sound more 'formal' than locals).

@Camomila

Has anyone mentioned 'reverse snobbery' yet? I really dislike it - horrible memories of being called posh all through primary school (when you learn a foreign language you often sound more 'formal' than locals).

Interestingly I was teased mercilessly when I went to secondary school because I spoke with a "posh" accent. Most of the pupils in my class lived in a rough part of town and spoke very differently from me. I wanted to fit in so I started dropping my H's and saying ain't. This was in South London.

When I was 16 a boyfriend pointed out to me that my chances of getting a decent job would be affected negatively if I continued to speak like that, so I made an effort to speak "properly".

I love dialects. I've just read that Sir Isaac Newton apparently spoke in a strong Lincolnshire accent all his life!

I really hope dialects are preserved and not lost in some mass homogenisation.

I do hate some American pronunciations though. "Urb" instead of "herb" particularly. Or "marathon" with that emphasis on a really "o" sound, so it ends up sounding like "mera-thon". And the "d" sound instead of "t". I had an English teacher who had been to America, and liked to remind us how well travelled he was by asking us daily to get out our "jodders". Since I rode horses, I found this slightly confusing!

@GreenlandTheMovie

I love dialects. I've just read that Sir Isaac Newton apparently spoke in a strong Lincolnshire accent all his life!

I really hope dialects are preserved and not lost in some mass homogenisation.

I do hate some American pronunciations though. "Urb" instead of "herb" particularly. Or "marathon" with that emphasis on a really "o" sound, so it ends up sounding like "mera-thon". And the "d" sound instead of "t". I had an English teacher who had been to America, and liked to remind us how well travelled he was by asking us daily to get out our "jodders". Since I rode horses, I found this slightly confusing!

So you say you love accents and then go on about how much you hate a particular group of accents?

Maybe your teacher naturally pronounced jotter that way because he spent some time in America.

@Scrumbleton

Sorry but I wince at bad grammar - particularly- I done I seen, we was - I have a strong regional accent use some bizarre colonialism’s and say haitch tho. Had to explain to partner this week what cowping is and recently also lepping as in cow cowping and the dog was lepping all over the bed

I love that you wince at bad grammar but you're fine with apostrophe abuse

1. "Me and DH were"
2. "When me and DH were talking about it"
3. "Freddie will come with Jacob and I"

You literally just have to drop the other person and hear how awful it would sound without them

1. "Me was..."?!
2. "when me was talking about it"?!
3. "Freddie will come with I"?!

So obviously should be:

1. DH and I..."
2. "When DH and I were talking about it"
3. "Freddie will come with me and Jacob"

The last one is most annoying because people who would never ever say "me and DH" think it's ok to say "he will talk it over with Tom and I".... which is wrong, owing, wrong...!

Such a lot of references on here to 'northerners' and 'southerners' when it's clear you are speaking about the north and south of England. The north of England is all 'south' to me as it's south of Scotland. Anything below the border is 'down south'.

Jotters is used in the west of Scotland. Or at least at was when I was at school, back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth. (And we covered our jotters in wallpaper, or wrapping paper, or whatever we had lying around...)

@NuniaBeeswax

Jotters is used in the west of Scotland. Or at least at was when I was at school, back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth. (And we covered our jotters in wallpaper, or wrapping paper, or whatever we had lying around...)

A jotter is fine. A jodder, when deliberately pronounced for fake American effect, is not.

No problem with accents or slang etc but can't stand simple/obvious spelling & grammar errors. Especially if it is a teacher.

A friend is a primary teacher and her spelling and grammar are appalling. There are extra apostrophes in everything she writes, and regular confusion of there/their/they're and the like. The plural does not exist according to her, there is only the possessive.

@Chunkymenrock

I don't believe it is snobbery. There is simply a right way and a wrong way. Perpetuating the wrong way just makes a complete hash of a language with logical, well established grammar rules. I'm less concerned with spoken errors, being fascinated with words, dialets and language. But I believe that we must preserve the correct written word. For example it sounds as if some people say 'would of' in speech, but it's important they should only ever write 'would've' or 'would have', and can understand why that's correct.

Incidentally, I was interested to hear Dolly Parton say "I've been waiting while I'm old enough to get it..." Many would say 'until.' Dialects are fascinating!

You are incorrect. There is no consistent right way or wrong way. There is only custom and precedent. The “correct” way to talk or to write is always evolving.

“Could have” is the “correct” way until it isn’t. In a hundred years’ time it may not be.

@PoochiePlush - thank you so much for your post! I genuinely just learned something useful.
I'm not English but have been living here for 15 years and still learning :)

I hate people who say 'myself' instead of 'me' or 'l'. I think they do it to sound educated, but just come across as Muppets.

Please explain what begs the question means

It's a type of circular argument - assuming the conclusion. It has a longstanding use in philosophy.

So, if I say "You women who disagree with feminist ideas are simply in thrall to the patriarchy, we know this through feminist analysis", that is begging the question. The woman disagreeing is questioning the truth or value of feminist analysis so you can't just refer to feminist analysis to refute her - you've effectively dodged her question.

It's a very common form of argument.

What does haitch and aitch mean? Does anyone have audio or video examples. I have wondered for ages, only ever heard of it on mn.

@Wilsonwilson

What does haitch and aitch mean? Does anyone have audio or video examples. I have wondered for ages, only ever heard of it on mn.

It just means pronouncing the /h/ sound in front of the word "haitch" or not "aitch". It's nothing to do with other words containing the letter "h" or the sound /h/. Just "aitch" and "haitch".

@GreenlandTheMovie

I love dialects. I've just read that Sir Isaac Newton apparently spoke in a strong Lincolnshire accent all his life!

I really hope dialects are preserved and not lost in some mass homogenisation.

I do hate some American pronunciations though. "Urb" instead of "herb" particularly. Or "marathon" with that emphasis on a really "o" sound, so it ends up sounding like "mera-thon". And the "d" sound instead of "t". I had an English teacher who had been to America, and liked to remind us how well travelled he was by asking us daily to get out our "jodders". Since I rode horses, I found this slightly confusing!

Why is it surprising that someone who grew up in Lincolnshire had a Lincolnshire accent? It would have actually been a Grantham accent, which is quite different to most of Lincolnshire, particularly when compared to Northern and Eastern Lincolnshire.

@PoochiePlush

1) "Me and DH were" 2) "When me and DH were talking about it" 3) "Freddie will come with Jacob and I"

You literally just have to drop the other person and hear how awful it would sound without them

1. "Me was..."?!
2. "when me was talking about it"?!
3. "Freddie will come with I"?!

So obviously should be:

1. DH and I..."
2. "When DH and I were talking about it"
3. "Freddie will come with me and Jacob"

The last one is most annoying because people who would never ever say "me and DH" think it's ok to say "he will talk it over with Tom and I".... which is wrong, owing, wrong...!

The last one would be "Freddie will come with Jacob and me". It's never me and ...

@Wilsonwilson

What does haitch and aitch mean? Does anyone have audio or video examples. I have wondered for ages, only ever heard of it on mn.

For example, Person 1: ‘What letter does the word hamster begin with?’ Person 2: ‘it begins with the 8th letter of the alphabet, which is haitch’ Person 1: ‘it’s pronounced aitch actually.’

Oh hell, why would anyone be offended because someone corrected your grammar! When someone corrects me I usually want to ask about the grammatical concept underpinning the structure that I've gotten wrong. My education missed most complex grammar and I find it interesting now. Also poor grammar is one of the reasons that I and do many British people struggle with second language acquisition.

@sanityisamyth

Yes you're right, it should be "Freddie went to the park with Jacob and me" it was a copy and paste error!

Anyway thanks to the non-English speaker who said my post was helpful.

This link is quite useful and explains it there than me!

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/blog.publoft.com/john-and-i-or-me-rules-made-simple/amp/

The officially correct version is, ‘I used not to...(whatever)’
As dinged into us endlessly by our DF donkey’s years ago.

“Could have” is the “correct” way until it isn’t. In a hundred years’ time it may not be.

I don't believe this to be true. "Could of" is a misspelling of "could've"

If you take the "could" out of the sentence, "of" does not make sense. Only "have" makes sense

"You could of done the washing up."
"You of done the washing up"

Or

"You could have done the washing up"
"You have done the washing up."

@Thejoyfulstar I know what you mean, my Italian DH would say "when will you delivery the baby?" while I would say "when are you due?". As a non native speaker he tends to use more words to say the same thing and occasionally I find myself (especially when talking to him) doing the same.

*deliver not delivery!