This is what I do not understand and I speak as a woman. We shout for equality but when something tragic, like this happens, we have no issue reminding men how unequal we actually are and feel.
What do you not understand? Yes, we fight for equality. Situations like this motivate women to speak up about how unequal we actually are and feel. We are not equal to men in society. Men do not see us as equal to them.
I do feel bad for men, all being tarred with the same brush because of some unhinged, evil individuals. I wonder how woman would take it if the shoe were on the other foot and we were being judged on the actions of a select few.
Nobody is saying that all men are murderers. We are saying that we have experienced endless behaviour from men on a large spectrum that’s part of the problem, whether that’s actual physical or sexual violence or everyday sexism.
I also do not think it is up to men to make woman feel safe, that is not their responsibility. That's on the women. Of course it's a shame that they have to 'keep themselves safe' but it's the same for men having to also keep themselves safe, men get murdered too you know.
We are talking about male violence against women here. If you want to talk about violence against men (who do you think is doing the vast majority of murdering men, by the way?) you can start a thread about that.
How is it not the responsibility of men when men are the perpetrators? You think male violence and sexual harassment are so inevitable that our only option is for women to curtail their lives to protect ourselves from men? That’s an odd thought from someone who feels sorry for men.
You’ll notice that these men who harass women in the street or touch us on the tube or turn on us after years of friendship because they think they’ve earned sex, or get aggressive when they don’t get their own way don’t do these things to their male friends, colleagues, etc. Those who beat their wives are perfectly capable of controlling their temper around their bosses, for example. The problem isn’t that men can’t stop themselves from behaving this way, or every man who is beating his partner would be attacking men and women in all settings every time they get angry.
What happened to that poor girl in London is obviously very tragic, however, it's a rarity, especially in those circumstances. It really is rare and she was genuinely in the wrong place at the wrong time, it's very sad, but all these women, making it about them, being up to high doe, acting as if woman are getting snatched off the streets and murdered daily is a bit too much and makes me cringe a bit to be honest.
You are spectacularly missing the point. Women are not acting as though being murdered on the street is a daily occurrence. As has been explained many times on this thread, it’s about the spectrum of male behaviour that makes up the culture wherein attacks like this occur, and that we have no way of knowing whether the man behind us while walking is safe or a threat. We don’t even know that about men we know well until we are in a situation that tests this.
It is not about all women, it is about this one young woman who was tragically kidnapped and murdered by this one sick individual. If a man is going to carry out these actions, then he is going to carry out these actions regardless of how loud we shout about it. Demonising normal innocent men is not going to help the issue at all, but actually alienate them even more.
That’s funny because this case was brought to my attention by my DH who spends lots of time on Twitter whereas I don’t. He is the opposite of alienated by us - he is extremely angry about the ways women are treated by men, he has been examining his own past actions and realising where he has been complicit in this culture, and he’s been trying to explain this to men for the last few days. He’s never done a woman harm deliberately, but he will admit there have been times in his life when he didn’t call out things he should have done and when he felt entitled to women’s attention and upset if he didn’t get it. He knows that these actions have made him part of the problem in the past.
This is the reaction of a man who’s not entirely innocent, but is willing to listen and reflect and change. Those unwilling to examine their past actions and complain about the unfairness probably have a reason for that.
When I was at university, I was raped by another student. He was a friend (I thought). I didn’t hear from him again until after I had graduated and he sent me text messages asking for sex. Blocked him, heard nothing since until I saw a tweet by him in response to a mutual friend during the height of Me Too, calling women liars and using the #NAMALT hashtag. So many of these men who’ve caused trauma we are still carrying around do not understand what they have done and live seemingly unscathed. I am tired of feeling sorry for men, and for protecting their feelings when we are not afforded the same courtesy. Enough is enough.