Is there any woman who hasn’t experienced male harrassment

[Twintub]

I was thinking about this and was initially thinking things have massively improved since I was young in the 80’s. I experienced flashers, a teacher tried to kiss me in high school he was married baby on the way, a pub boss whose girlfriend worked with him tried to kiss and grope me and another middle aged boss in my late 20s that pulled my trousers down at a night away for work. There were many more. Now I’m in my 40s I thought I don’t get bothered much but then I remembered 2 other pre covid instances. One late night train a drunk guy tried to chat to friend she politely said she wasn't interested and he got Aggressive calling her a speccy lesbian. Another instance my friend and I in a pub and a middle aged drunk man obviously on a business trip chatted up my friend she wasn’t interested I very nicely said we are just having a chat he turned on me and called me an ugly bitch He wasn’t talk h to me and I wasn’t a patch on her etc etc his work mates dragged him away.

What amazes me is men behave like this bit raise daughters who in turn get treated like this.

@SpiceRat

Yes when younger. I've also been told I'm too unattractive / fat to be sexually assaulted so I don't need to worry.

The man who subjected me to mental abuse in a relationship and subsequently raped me post-relationship was a 'nice' guy too. Studious, computer programmer, nerdy, quiet, the type of man a lot have described on this thread of being the 'safe' type of man.

There is a trope within popular culture, especially films and TV, in which it is perfectly acceptable, appealing and humorous even, for a man to treat women like absolute dirt as long as he is a bit socially awkward and "nerdy". Ross Geller is a slightly less offensive version of this, and they started doing it in the newer episodes of Red Dwarf. But if you want the worst, most jaw dropping example, look to the 80s film Revenge of the Nerds (don't watch it, just look up the plot). I know the 80s were a long time ago, and I like to think nothing that repellent would be done now, but it was considered a classic for a long time, probably still is, and it's part of the foundation.

And you know what, I never even realised. My husband pointed it out to me.

In my teens and early twenties in the 90s occasionally had my bum pinched in clubs, inappropriate remarks from older men in pubs, was scared to walk past builders or workmen.
In the 2000s I lived on the continent and got street harassment, about 90% of it from north African men and the other 10% from sub-Saharan Africans.
Came back to the UK for my 30s and got no harassment at all for the ten years I was back.
So, I suppose if you're asking 'in the last ten years' I can answer 'no'. I'm much less attractive than average and am middle aged now, but the no harassment has been from 33 years of age.

Woke up in a mixed dorm to find a man on top of me as a teenager, pinned to wall and had a man rub himself against me- I seriously thought he might have raped me, again as a teenager, so much molesting in clubs over a number of years, followed to my car and jeered at, sexual commentary to me as I was pushing a pram, far too many cat calls and stares and inappropriate gestures to remember, a man flashed me and my sister when I was about 14/15 and she was 12/13. An inappropriate conversation with a sleazy teacher. Being looked up and down at a push work function and being told in a very condescending fashion why it was they thought I was there (looks not brains). I could go on. I consider this to be a normal amount of harassment in my friendship group. Makes me sick and I'm so, so pleased that this movement is happening.

@Thymeto

SweetPetrichor wow...just wow. So I suppose you’ve never been a girl in a school uniform? Never joined any clubs? You’ve never been for a run? Never been to a bar or a night club? Never walked down the street minding your own business? Never been on public transport? Never been drunk? Never been around drunk people? Never used any social media? Never been in a relationship with a man?

These are all examples of things you have to be doing to be sexually harassed or assaulted.

I was a girl in a school uniform. I was a girl in a jodhpurs and knee high riding boots too if that helps. I’ve partaken in clubs. I cycle in Lycra. I walk around as much as anyone. Public transport, sure thing. Never been drunk and not been around drunk people. Not my thing. I use social media. And I’m in a happy relationship with a man.

...never seen that elusive abuse though. Not even one wolf whistle.

@SchrodingersImmigrant

I was also never wolf whistled at.

I remember a Girls magazine I read in the 1970s...maybe FAB208 or Jackie having an article about how being wolf-whistled going past a building site was a confidence booster and should be aspired to as a rite of passage!

Girls'

@LucieStar I didn’t report for various reasons. For example how would I prove the man on the tube had pressed his penis up against me? I was young and didn’t know how to handle it, so put my bag between us and tried to move away. The groping in clubs, again how do you prove it? Tell the bouncers? It’s his word against yours. The groping in the middle of crowd at a gig, again who do I perform a citizens arrest on and how do I get the police to arrest them? Where’s the evidence? Will the police even believe you?

No.

I was thinking about this the other day. When I was younger, I had no idea that some of the stuff was sexual assault.

I recall being about 8 when a boy I knew calling me over to this secluded "den" that we used to play in. There were normally about 10 of us who played there together, and he called me over and told me everyone was in there. When I went in, it was just him, and he held on to me and tried to get my clothes off. He must've been about 10, so not really sure what to make of it.

When I was 17, I was friends with a boy of the same age. A load of us would go out together every weekend getting pissed. I went back to his house (which wasn't unusual, and definitely didn't mean that I was going back for some action). He had an en suite bathroom. I went in for a wee and he came in with me and locked the door. He started trying to grab hold of me and kiss me. I started screaming and shouting telling him to get off and he was putting his hand down my knickers. I started being sick and carried on screaming, and eventually his Dad came upstairs and called my Dad to come and pick me up (it was kind of made to seem as if I was just a drunken young girl).

When I was 18, I worked in a clothes shop. We had a new manager who was 10 years older than me. He started sending flirty messages and I sent a few back as it seemed exciting. He messaged and asked me to come up to the staff room for a chat, so I went up and he lunged at me and kissed me. I left after that and was a bit confused because I had a boyfriend and while I was sending flirty messages, I definitely didn't expect him to just kiss me out of nowhere. He also had a partner. I then split up from my partner and slept with boss a few times. One day I told him I wasn't interested any more. he then came up to the stock room and put his hand down my trousers and I just pulled it out and he didn't come near me again. I then found out he was sleeping with nearly all the staff. He then got reported from his next job for sexual assault and he came to me and told me how it was all lies.

There are probably more instances too.

Also, I suppose if we are talking verbal as well - then on a daily basis. I work with a lord of men who tell me daily they would like to "fuck me", could I give them a tit fuck, they bet I'm good in bed (I'm not. I'm shit 😂😂), but nearly all day I get sexual comments from them. I take it as banter as I know it's (mainly) how it's meant.

But it does make you think how predatory men can be

[quote User26272829]@LucieStar I didn’t report for various reasons. For example how would I prove the man on the tube had pressed his penis up against me? I was young and didn’t know how to handle it, so put my bag between us and tried to move away. The groping in clubs, again how do you prove it? Tell the bouncers? It’s his word against yours. The groping in the middle of crowd at a gig, again who do I perform a citizens arrest on and how do I get the police to arrest them? Where’s the evidence? Will the police even believe you?[/quote]

Yes all of that makes sense as barriers to reporting.

I was watching crimewatch the other night and a there was guy who's image they were showing who was sitting next to lone females on trains, exposing himself, then moving away and changing clothes so as not to be identified. The image of his face was fairly clear on the cctv - and obviously he's done it enough times to be reported. That's what made me think I'd definitely report something like that, where there's a chance it was caught on cctv for example or if there was a witness.

But in a crowded night club or gig, I can definitely see why you'd think what's the point, his word against mine. I'm sure I'd think similar if it happened to me, despite feeling violated by it.

@HaNNaHC92

I'm 28 and have not experienced male harassment or even come close to. There's obviously a lot of women out there who have been, but I think the numbers are exaggerated and are still small compared to those who have not been.

Staggering lack of empathy. I am in my fifties and I do not know a single woman with no experience of harassment ranging from verbal, to touching, to sexual assault, rape, violent assault, coercion, etc. I asked my friends about this a while ago and they didn’t know anyone either. So the numbers are “exaggerated “ ?

The only incident I reported, out of dozens, was the last flasher I had. A policeman did come out, but he was really insensitive, didn’t seem to grasp why I was upset and frightened, and I felt it wasn’t taken very seriously in spite of the location meaning this man could easily come across another lone woman .

@SirVixofVixHall Agree 100% ^

I am struggling to fathom how a SINGLE woman has never had any of the things happen, that the vast majority of women on here have mentioned... I just can't see how it has never happened.

I am early forties. Every woman I know has been harassed / assaulted at least once and probably multiple times.
Ones that stand out for me are -
first catcalls when I was 14, group of 40yoish men stood and watched me walk past commenting on my breasts. There was nobody else around it was in a footpath. I was terrified and ashamed.
Was followed home and ended up running in my twenties, I have no doubt I had a fortunate escape.
Was accosted my man saying “I want to fuck you”, not letting me last, then pushing me up against a wall, again in my twenties. That time I did call the police afterward who were great.
There are dozens more “low level” things but these were the most frightening. Even this week I decided not to walk down a woodland path as I thought ... I’m alone, it’s secluded - too risky. That is the reality and it’s so wrong.

To report or not...

This doesn't help...
here

A dad-of-one who forced himself on a young woman as she walked home alone late at night walked free after complaining he would lose his job if he went to jail.

Takeaway worker Javed Miah, 23, ambushed the terrified victim in the street before pulling her to the floor and molesting her.

Miah only fled when the unnamed woman managed to used the SOS function on her mobile phone to call 999 which let out a loud beeping noise.

The victim who works as a store assistant in Oldham, Greater Manchester later told police: "Since the assault, I have not been able to leave the house or work.

''I do not know if he knows my route to work. I am scared to walk anywhere. I will have to rely on my friends or family to drive me to work out of fear.''
At Tameside Magistrates' Court he faced jail after admitting sexual assault but was sent on a sex offender rehabilitation programme after pleading he was a ''the sole earner'' in his family. His lawyer said the attack was ''quite opportunistic.''

THIS is what we're up against.

I'm 29. Been violently assaulted twice and SA from mother's abusive misogynist husband.

Another 28 year old here! I've been cat called, when I was in secondary school, I'd constantly have my boobs groped by the boys, my bum
Groped, my bra undone, I had big boobs. It's not my fault.

I was also almost raped by a friend who was 17 when I was 15, There were a few of us at his house, the others left and then he just changed, he wouldn't take no for an answer, he had me pinned down and was getting a condom out while I was begging him to get off. luckily he got disturbed by someone coming back and I managed to get away.
On prom night, me and our group all camped out on our friends garden must've been about 12 of us, make and female, all really good friends. I woke up some point in the night with one of my male friends laying behind me with his hands down my pyjama trousers.

It's definitely happens way more than it should.

I think it is so normalised in society that its only if you turn the sexes of the victim and perpetrator around that you really see how crazily disturbing this all is. How mad it is that this is how we live. Can I imagine middle aged women regularly targetting an all boys school to flash them, or cornering a schoolboy in a park or library or touching up a boy on a school trip? Absolutely not, but that happened to us at school. Can I imagine a woman clearly masturbating next to a man on a tram - no, but that happened to me. Yelling out of cars, commenting walking past, trying to grab them cycling by, scaring men into altering behaviour. No. Its inconceivable. But that is routine for women.

Even the fact I feel lucky never to have been sexually assaulted .... what man ever has to think 'well I just feel lucky no woman has attacked me'. The act doesn't have to have taken place to put inhibitions on your life, its that it could and is so prevalent that changes how you live and your risk evaluation

From as young as 12, yes. I’m 34 this is what we’re used to 🙄

@LucieStar The groping incidents happened over 20 years ago and CCTV wasn’t as widely available. Also it was so commonplace and difficult to combat. “Thankfully” nowadays I don’t get groped, just leered at from a distance . when I’m out on a run. I’m more worried about my teenage daughter though.

I am beginning to think I know why nothing get gone about it. People don’t want their own son, brother. Father , etc in trouble as it is way too common.

The only time I reported was a man wanking at be on the tube when it was empty on mine and the adjacent carriages.

I reported because

I had heard about escalation and it felt like the sort of thing they might be interested in
Tubes have cameras these days

Guess what happened?

Nothing.

2 times 🙁 out with my husband 1 week after having my fourth child..going into fish shop with him when a man outside fish shop put his hand right up my bottom 😥 my husband challenged him and punched him ..second time was the scariest 😥 daytime going through a quiet part of a lovely park where we were feeding the ducks and a man was going I front of me then going at the back of me...leaning on trees etc..I was so frightened that I swear me knees were knocking😰..2 kids in a double buggy and two young children holding the pushchair. Was not sure if I could outrun him of I needed to 😥..why do men do this!

@NiceGerbil That’s awful, but just confirms what I’d suspected