Police advising women not to walk alone at night

[Bubbinsmakesthree]

I’ve seen a lot of friends outraged at the Met police locally advising women not to walk alone at night in the days following the disappearance of Sarah Everard. I’ve seen a posts along the lines of ‘how about telling men not to attack women instead?’

I absolutely agree with the wider point that we should be asking the question “how do we make it safe for women?” not “how do women stay out of danger?”

But in this case, was the police’s advice not just the equivalent of advising people to stay out of the water following a shark attack?

I’m so upset and angry about Sarah Everard but I cannot get incensed about the police advising women to take precautions when an unknown attacker may have still been in the area.

@Notthemessiah

More men than women are killed by men, by quite a large percentage. Male violence is a problem for both sexes - blaming all men for it is not the way forward. Not walking home alone is good advice in lots of places, regardless of sex.

This is true, yet men don't have to modify their behaviour to be safe.

Do you think a high number of men have carried their keys in their hand in case they need to defend themselves? Do you think a high number of men have to think about how they can get home safely? To take the registration of the taxi and text to a friend. Or other such modifications many women do as standard?

Are men routinely advised not to walk alone or late a night.

This is true, yet men don't have to modify their behaviour to be safe

This.

As for "tell men not to attack women" that is right up there with "tell drug addicts not to break into cars" or "tell people with money problems not to embezzle" as ways to bring down crime. There is little one can say to anyone who thinks this is a reasonable suggestion.

I get your point re saying it now.

For me though, the point is that we need start saying this to the little boys of today. We think were doing that, but we aren't.

Society still teaches children that boys are able, girls are not.

Girls need to be worthy- pretty, kind, amenable. Girls are wallpaper, they are there to cheer up the view.
What girls choose to wear makes a statement; what they choose to wear can have an impact on what happens to them. The choices they make, will impact on what they might be subjected to.

The problem is, when we give little girls those^^ messages, we give it to little boys too.

Are men routinely advised not to walk alone or late a night?

No, but why aren't they?

It is curious that men, who are at more danger of being attacked, do not feel the same fear as women do. Why is that? Does the media fetishize female fear?

Some thoughts - I think this is really dangerous advice, because it may encourage some men to think women out after dark alone are fair game. I was out cycling tonight and a car stopped in the middle of the quite road - that has never happened to me before.

I live in Scotland and its dark before I get home from work about 4 months of the year. So such a suggestion would effectively rule out after work activities such as running for women. The government has also made it illegal to run with other people and it has been for several months now. I also wish there wasn't such an emphasis on hi-viz wearing on pavement for runners. If I'm attacked, I want to be able to run away and hide, not be lit up like a beacon.

Yep. We had this shit in West Yorkshire in the late 1970s and early 1980s until Peter Sutcliffe was caught. I can still remember my DM and her friends walking together to their WI meetings armed with knitting needles, spray paint aerosols and those gas canister powered hooter thingies. Sometimes one of their DH's would give everyone a lift there and back, but that was a rare occurrence. Mostly they walked as a group, and as they all lived a few doors away from each other nobody had to walk very far alone.

I was too young to take part but I am still so proud of them!! It horrifies me that things have changed so little since then.

@Lessthanaballpark

Are men routinely advised not to walk alone or late a night?

No, but why aren't they?

It is curious that men, who are at more danger of being attacked, do not feel the same fear as women do. Why is that? Does the media fetishize female fear?

Because boys aren't taught that they need to be afraid of men. And because the men who are victims of other men are never told that it's because of something they wore, or something they did or didn't do.

@SnackSizeRaisin

Place a curfew on men then. Job done.

That's disproportionate. You can't blame a whole group for the actions of one person. Most men do not murder strangers.

Plus it would probably have the reverse effect in that law abiding men would stay home, so there would be fewer people about generally to deter the small number of opportunist criminals.

This sort of crime is vanishingly rare and there's no need for anyone to change their behaviour, apart from in the immediate aftermath until they make sure they've got the person that did it. Which is exactly what they've advised

Nobody is blaming the whole group.

They are saying that one of them is murdering women. So to protect women they should all stay indoors so any man out and about can easily be identified as a menace and arrested.

Why should all women change their behaviour because of some men, but it’s not ok to expect all men to change their behaviour instead?

I’d be delighted to phone the police every time I see a man out after dark.

Listening to a discussion on this on the radio today l was pretty furious at the presenter who kept talking about PEOPLE who harass women, PEOPLE who rape and murder...

Call them MEN

We need to stop with the BS and call it out...MEN do this.

@Dragongirl10

Listening to a discussion on this on the radio today l was pretty furious at the presenter who kept talking about PEOPLE who harass women, PEOPLE who rape and murder...

Call them MEN

We need to stop with the BS and call it out...MEN do this.

I didn't hear that radio programme, but it would have p*ssed me off, too.

A lot of people think we shouldn’t have to make ourselves safe..and instead the men shouldn’t be attacking us.... but that’s a bit like saying we shouldn’t have to wear a seatbelt because everyone should just drive very safely. We aren’t in control of someone intent on murdering us, but we are in control of ourselves, so until we live in a time where abduction and murder doesn’t happen, it makes complete sense to at least try to avoid situations that might make us more vulnerable...much like we are doing with covid! We wear masks and stay indoors to protect ourselves and others from covid. In an ideal world there wouldn’t be a pandemic, but whilst the virus is out there we do what we can to avoid catching it. You can’t just tell the virus to not infect people or tell people that they shalt not murder.

@LunaHeather I've seen Jenny Jones' tweets. And she has also not linked to the met saying anything of the sort. She says they have, but has not given any details about where.

Maybe they have, but after an hour of searching I've not found a single lead to the Met telling women not to go out at night alone, after this awful incident.

This thread is full of people protesting against them saying it (which is fair if they did), but not a single person has said WHERE they've seen the Met say that.

A lot of people think we shouldn’t have to make ourselves safe..and instead the men shouldn’t be attacking us.... but that’s a bit like saying we shouldn’t have to wear a seatbelt because everyone should just drive very safely. We aren’t in control of someone intent on murdering us, but we are in control of ourselves, so until we live in a time where abduction and murder doesn’t happen, it makes complete sense to at least try to avoid situations that might make us more vulnerable...

We will never get anywhere near a time where abduction and murder doesn't happen, until we are brave enough to change the narrative.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

This is true, yet men don't have to modify their behaviour to be safe

This.

Yes they do. They will still need to worry about walking in certain areas late at night or after dark, who they talk to and what they say, how they look at someone, or at that someone's wife or girlfriend, to make sure they don't spill the wrong person's drink. Unless you think that all the male victims of male violence somehow did something to deserve it?

A lot of men are victims of violence at the hands of men they don't know, or at least don't know well, whereas women are more likely to be assaulted by men they know well (mostly partners).

It's just so bizarre.

On the one hand we're told NAMALT. Don't tar men with the same brush.

But then we're told to modify our behaviour and regard all unknown men as potential assailants.

It's a fine line to walk.

You are taking me out of context, messiah, twisting my and cherryvalanc's words, and trying to throw a dead cat on the table, and you know it.

Great.

I will quit my job and stay at home so that I no longer have to walk home alone.

Is the government going to support me and millions of other women to do this?

So sad for the loss of another bright spark of life because of violence and abuse by a bastard.

I remember being a student in the 90s and the shit we had to put up with then was daily, on a minor basis, with some really scary, less frequent incidents (in leafy Leamington Spa). As I’m now living rurally, I don’t really wander around in the dark on my own that often (pubs are closed etc). For those of you in cities, has the general level of harassment got worse recently do you think? Has it diminished at all?

It’s absolutely a male problem. They also attack and kill men. Obviously a lot of it is down to physical strength but a lot of it is conditioning.
That goes for all the examples of drug takers, embezzlement that PP have given. Women are just more law abiding. Yes maybe you recall every shoplifter being female but we aren’t the ones on the whole being entitled twats towards other people.

It’s not like a seatbelt. That protects men and women. No ones saying men don’t go out ( even though you’re the problem)

Reclaim These Streets
@ReclaimTS
· 17m
URGENT UPDATE: police want us to pull the event and are threatening to prosecute organisers. We're working with human rights lawyers to challenge this, but we need your help Down pointing backhand indexDown pointing backhand index

#ReclaimTheseStreets

City of Women
@cityofwomen1
Replying to
@Fantayzia_UK
@WMPolice
have told Coventry women this socially distanced #ReclaimTheseStreets vigil would be unlawful. Threatened organiser with a 10 grand fine! Yet approved Birmingham event! Also events happening all over UK! #covhour

@Lessthanaballpark

It's just so bizarre.

On the one hand we're told NAMALT. Don't tar men with the same brush.

But then we're told to modify our behaviour and regard all unknown men as potential assailants.

It's a fine line to walk.

Who's told us to do that? I'm still looking for the story behind this OP.

I have searched every online newspaper, plus the BBC etc, and still can't find the story that the OP has referred to.

@Thewinterofdiscontent

It’s absolutely a male problem. They also attack and kill men. Obviously a lot of it is down to physical strength but a lot of it is conditioning. That goes for all the examples of drug takers, embezzlement that PP have given. Women are just more law abiding. Yes maybe you recall every shoplifter being female but we aren’t the ones on the whole being entitled twats towards other people.

It’s not like a seatbelt. That protects men and women. No ones saying men don’t go out ( even though you’re the problem)

No-one has told women not to go out either. Or at least if they have, not a single news media site is reporting it that I've found. The source for this OP is a mystery

The thing is....you can't do a thing to make men 'behave'.

99.9% of men do not commit murder.

Most men are not violent towards women. Most physical crimes are men against men.

What happened to SE is appalling and as a mother of a DD that age it really hits home.

BUT you can't stop perverts and killers just by telling them not to do it.

Most men who abduct murder women have serious personality disorders.

Women should feel safe on the streets but there is always going to be a lone wolf out there. No one can be 100% safe ever.

So we ought to take care, because no one can take all murderers off the streets in advance.

@Bubbinsmakesthree

I’ve seen a lot of friends outraged at the Met police locally advising women not to walk alone at night in the days following the disappearance of Sarah Everard. I’ve seen a posts along the lines of ‘how about telling men not to attack women instead?’

I absolutely agree with the wider point that we should be asking the question “how do we make it safe for women?” not “how do women stay out of danger?”

But in this case, was the police’s advice not just the equivalent of advising people to stay out of the water following a shark attack?

I’m so upset and angry about Sarah Everard but I cannot get incensed about the police advising women to take precautions when an unknown attacker may have still been in the area.

OP, before I lose my mind, where is the link to this story? Where have the Met said this, because it's not in any news media tonight.

If they said it, then they're absolutely wrong to do so. But I'm concerned that the fury on this thread is not based on fact.

I'm a runner (female). I live in busy commuter area of a major city. I run anytime between 5am in summer and about 9pm (summer or winter). I generally feel safe, but I leave/avoid places that are quiet.

It was interesting to discuss the issue with male runners. On the whole, they wouldn't think twice to running down lonely streets/ woodland.

The 'dodgiest' encounters I've had have been early summer mornings (less people about than evenings) or in daylight. All involving males.

Many women do monitor their behaviour/ choices around the fear of male violence. Sadly, I don't think that will/can ever change.