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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Police advising women not to walk alone at night

663 replies

Bubbinsmakesthree · 11/03/2021 18:30

I’ve seen a lot of friends outraged at the Met police locally advising women not to walk alone at night in the days following the disappearance of Sarah Everard. I’ve seen a posts along the lines of ‘how about telling men not to attack women instead?’

I absolutely agree with the wider point that we should be asking the question “how do we make it safe for women?” not “how do women stay out of danger?”

But in this case, was the police’s advice not just the equivalent of advising people to stay out of the water following a shark attack?

I’m so upset and angry about Sarah Everard but I cannot get incensed about the police advising women to take precautions when an unknown attacker may have still been in the area.

OP posts:
Onlinedilema · 14/03/2021 07:49

I said this to DH last night.
Let's start telling all victims of crime to protect themselves and not blame the wrong doer. Had your car stole? Well but a cheap undesirable car then you idiot or better still stop using a car!!!!!! If you didn't own a car then you would not have had it stolen would you? Been hacked on line? Close your account, don't have an account. Had your bank account cleared out, shouldn't have money then if you don't want to share it should you. Had your dog stolen, don't have a dog and at the very least never ever take your dog out alone or where you might encounter dog thieves. It's your fault you stuck up prick anyway for having a nice dog.

SingToTheSky · 14/03/2021 08:23

13yo said last night after seeing the vigil on the news how unfair it is that she feels unsafe outside, even to the extent that she’s worried about walking to school (and that’s without her knowing about an attempted rape this week in our town). She doesn’t feel much safer at school though - in September the boy she’d been out with before was walking up to her in break times and hitting her, hard, on the back of the head. Teachers - both male and female - did nothing when they saw, until we complained. It’s just expected that boys treat girls like shit - it feels like it’s just allowed, everywhere. I’m able to avoid walking alone at night, so I do, but the problem starts so much earlier, and it won’t help the future girlfriends of boys like him either. The comments above about it starting with smaller acts are spot on IMO.

JFD0201 · 14/03/2021 11:43

How about don't invite a police officer into your home or never engage with one late at night.
My sons estranged father was a police officer and my god was he vindictive and broke the law by not paying for his child but worse of all tried to convict me of a crime I didn't commit in a blackmailing attempt to stop me from claiming child support. He had me arrested and handcuffed and thrown in a cell when 8 months pregnant and had just come out from hospital after being treated for dvt. He still is the most nastiest most vindictive individual I've ever met. His vile acts were supported by Gwent Police and some of those officers are now high ranking. Secondly I dated a Detective Constable in Forensics of SW Police and after I found he was grooming me for organised gang bang rapey sex through the dark web I dumped him immediately. He is still the most disturbing person I've ever met. I shudder that this person is still a serving officer.
After reading that my experiences are not unusual ( police dismissals for sex crimes and gross misconduct are alarmingly very high) Police scare the sht out of me so my advice to all women out there that "Police are not your friends" ""do not get into a police car under any circumstance". I could show you some Facebookgroups where people have told their stories supported by news of dismissals and its ** disturbing the sex crimes, paedophilia that police commit. The recruitment process is currently very poor and they are allowing convicted criminals to serve.

My police reporting friends have told me that the Met failed to act on reports that Wayne Couzens had publicly exposed himself on two separate occasions. If they had down their jobs properly and removed his badge, he wouldn't have been able to entice Sarah into his car - I find this fact extremely distressing and Cressida Dicks should resign and the Met fully investigated for protecting one of their own

TheRiverKnows · 14/03/2021 12:01

This reply has been deleted

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oil0W0lio · 14/03/2021 12:01

Secondly I dated a Detective Constable in Forensics of SW Police and after I found he was grooming me for organised gang bang rapey sex through the dark web I dumped him immediately. He is still the most disturbing person I've ever met. I shudder that this person is still a serving officer
This is completely horrifying and I am so sorry for what you have suffered 💐
I have no idea how many coppers are good and how many coppers are bad, I feel sure there must be good genuine police officers but I can also see that evil people would be attracted to the cloak of invisibility that would be conferred to them if they were police officer.
we should never forget that power corrupts and corrupt people will always be attracted to positions of power

DenisetheMenace · 14/03/2021 12:15

oil0W0lio

Secondly I dated a Detective Constable in Forensics of SW Police and after I found he was grooming me for organised gang bang rapey sex through the dark web I dumped him immediately. He is still the most disturbing person I've ever met. I shudder that this person is still a serving officer

This is completely horrifying and I am so sorry for what you have suffered 💐”

Yes, it is. Did you report his behaviour?

GreenlandTheMovie · 14/03/2021 12:33

I remember a disturbing incident about 10 years ago when I was swimming in my local swimming pool. A man touched me up as I was swimming. As in he touched my private parts in a stroking motion as he swam past in the opposite direction. A few minutes later, he did it again. I confronted him at the end of the lane and he was aggressively, and righteously indignant, so I complained about him to the reception staff as I left.

Wow, did that kick off. The receptionist called over the pool manager, who invited me into his office. He got very worked up and started saying did I want to call the police if I didn,t "withdraw my complaint. I simply kept reiterating what I said and so he phoned the police although I hadn't asked him to do that. Two police officers turned up, a man and a younger woman. The woman then started accusing me of wasting police time, threatened me with arrest for that if I did not withdraw my complaint. Would not listen to any kind of reason or logic that it was not me who had called the police. Very aggressive, very threatening. It reached a farcical stage when they asked me what my job was. "University lecturer" I said. "What do you lecture in?" "Law". Eventually, under coercion, I withdrew my complaint. My complaint to the manager of the leisure centre that someone had touched me intimately, not to the police, because I hadn't done that. The male police officer said absolutely nothing at all.

6 weeks later, a man was found to be filming children getting changed in that pool's changing rooms, using specially drilled holes. Then, miraculously, he ran outside and drove off in his car. Even more miraculously, none of the staff on reception were able to stop him or note down his car registration number, despite a concerned parent chasing him. The cctv trained on the car park wasn't working, and none of the staff in the big glass fronted building with the reception desk directly facing onto the car park thought to note down his registration number.

It still bothers me. It reached the local newspapers, he was never caught, and the very same swimming pool manager got a lot of publicity from giving interviews about how upset he was, how terrible it was, etc..

It still bothers me. The whole thing was one of the most disturbing incidents of my life, as I was clearly being lied to by people in certain positions of power and there was nothing that I could do about it. It was so bad that I saw no point in contacting the police after the filming incident to give a description of the man who had touched me or to complain about the strange behaviour of the centre manager.

Blueberries0112 · 14/03/2021 12:34

Curfew is not answer. The golden state killer broke in people homes. He was an ex police for the USA

Changeforchangessake · 14/03/2021 12:35

@NoGoodPunsLeft

Better recent evidence suggests it's policemen who shouldn't walk alone at night lest they abduct and murder a woman

Yep. It's bloody scary when you feel like you can't even trust the police to keep you safe

Yes perhaps the police could be walking the streets alone- and suggesting men aren’t out after 6 pm to enable innocent women to go out at night safe
oil0W0lio · 14/03/2021 12:39

Did you report his behaviour
Thing is who can you report it to?
the police?
they will cover it up because if it gets out and makes them look bad
Actually if you're lucky they'll cover it up most likely they will try and punish you you for exposing a policeman
this is what happens routinely to women, if they complain about a man they are seen as the aggressor because no crime could ever be worse than trying to damage a man's reputation, goodness me that would never do, you might hurt his chances in life damage his ability to enrich himself and get ahead, he must prevail at all costs you are a mere woman, you don't matter, you are secondary

DenisetheMenace · 14/03/2021 12:44

oil0W0lio

Did you report his behaviour
Thing is who can you report it to?“

Maybe start with your MP? If they won’t help you, personally I’d write to Jess Phillips for advice.

Parentpower20 · 14/03/2021 13:00

I do not think the police should say this. It’s basically victim blaming. It’s also very different to saying “shark in the water” because the (likely) perpetrator of this particular crime is in custody. It’s more akin to a lifeguard watching someone throw oil into the water and shouting to the people in the pool don’t get into the water. But then saying it again and again every time it happens rather than investigating who TF throwing oil in, who is supplying it and securing the pool area.

RootyT00t · 14/03/2021 13:03

@Blueberries0112

Curfew is not answer. The golden state killer broke in people homes. He was an ex police for the USA
Pretty much every one of the big cases in the last however many years was by someone known to them, inside.
JFD0201 · 14/03/2021 13:15

No because I had given a fake name and he didn't have my address ( rules of dating when you have a young child plus you park your car around corner - you never let anyone know your address or place of work in the first 6 months) . If I had reported him he would know my address and my name making me a vulnerable target by him and his rapey associates (I can only assume from the police too as he did these acts at his home address in Merthyr). It doesn't stop me highlighting it and I have done at every opportunity as a warning to others. The storyline with the copper in Corrie with the granddaughter of Gail Platt I found extremely triggering which highlighted the battle she had against the police. she had a supportive family - im a single parent with no family so was not equipped for the court process

the comment about power corrupts and that the vetting process is slack with the police makes a highly dangerous combination - police have yet to give me one reason to commend them and told an associate of mine that her rape was only a sex act gone wrong. this sums up the police for me

Kazzyhoward · 14/03/2021 14:29

@Parentpower20

I do not think the police should say this. It’s basically victim blaming. It’s also very different to saying “shark in the water” because the (likely) perpetrator of this particular crime is in custody. It’s more akin to a lifeguard watching someone throw oil into the water and shouting to the people in the pool don’t get into the water. But then saying it again and again every time it happens rather than investigating who TF throwing oil in, who is supplying it and securing the pool area.
So do you think police shouldn't put up signs saying "beware, pickpockets operate in this area" or deliver leaflets telling households to lock their doors/windows after a spate of burglaries in a particular area?
Dutch1e · 14/03/2021 20:04

Kazzyhoward casually comparing women's bodies to TVs and credit cards

Madamum18 · 15/03/2021 11:38

Jackson Katz TED talk is brilliant on the whole language used around women's safety that highlights the bigger issues re Women's safety

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 15/03/2021 12:25

But in this case, was the police’s advice not just the equivalent of advising people to stay out of the water following a shark attack?

Meh. They'd already trapped the rogue shark. So either they think they got the wrong shark, or they think the shark has a friend they haven't caught yet, or else they want everyone to stay out of the water so they don't have to keep an eye out or bother to put shark-nets out, and the sharks can swim about happily biting anyone who does go in for a swim. And if anyone gets bitten it's just their own fault for ignoring the warning.

TheJerkStore · 15/03/2021 12:28

So do you think police shouldn't put up signs saying "beware, pickpockets operate in this area" or deliver leaflets telling households to lock their doors/windows after a spate of burglaries in a particular area?

It's really not the same. Not even close.

Hearwego · 16/03/2021 20:39

Here’s a genuine question and not meaning to cause any upset in any way.
But what was it about this case that caused this reaction?..
I mean sadly other women and even young children have been murdered and it didn’t have the same effect from the public....

SquirmOfEels · 16/03/2021 20:56

But what was it about this case that caused this reaction?..

The cynic in me says the marketing of the case. There was a highly effective social media campaign that meant that people had heard Sarah was missing before even many of the posters had gone up. That campaign was done by colleagues and friends who loved her, so I'm not knocking it, just pointing out that her friends and colleagues were well placed to run a very effective 'missing' campaign.

And it was also that she struck such a chord with so many people - Ms Everywoman of young professional city women, and she was just walking home. She was you, your friend, your sister, your DD.

Plus the unfolding horror of how the hell can someone vanish from the south circular, where there are cameras on every junction, buses passing every few minutes, a flow of traffic.

NiceGerbil · 16/03/2021 20:59

She was the sort of victim the press take an interest in.

Police officer arrested.

And given the press coverage, a lot of women thought last straw.

A bit like other events overseas where one case will result in an outpouring of anger. It's about her but also for many woman all the rapes, all the murders, DV, rape prosections at all time low, and the everyday low level stuff that we're supposed to put up with.

apalledandshocked · 16/03/2021 21:05

I think what others have said, plus the timing of it. It coincided perfectly with International Women's Day, Mother's Day and protests around women's rights in Australia etc. And the fact that most people have spent a year online, and thinking about things, so the social media postings will have travelled further and affected people more. Also, for every person that didnt care about previous victims of violence beause they were the "wrong" colour/class, there are probably 2 people that had started thinking about those issues more because of the protests around race and police brutality last year. Even though they are not the same thing, as soon as people start posting/sharing messages around one political issue they are more likely to start interacting with others. Particularly if its coming from similar sources.
So the perfect storm really.

cerseii · 16/03/2021 21:11

Here’s a genuine question and not meaning to cause any upset in any way.

I have another one: why is there an emphasis on Sarah being a particularly young woman? It’s just that prior to this, 33 year olds weren’t universally considered young. Not that it matters.

But to answer your question, I think Sarah’s disappearance gained major attention as it was very public. Then the investigation moved at a fast pace, then there was a revelation that an officer was arrested etc. I think it was easy for the wider public to feel more invested.

I also think part of it is that Sarah didn’t do anything “wrong”. She wasn’t drunk, wasn’t wearing clothes that could be easily critiqued etc. So I think the usual victim blaming couldn’t take place and less people wrote her off

SquirmOfEels · 16/03/2021 21:21

I have another one: why is there an emphasis on Sarah being a particularly young woman? It’s just that prior to this, 33 year olds weren’t universally considered young. Not that it matters

Because some of us are old enough to be her mother?

Because she looked younger than her years?