Police advising women not to walk alone at night

[Bubbinsmakesthree]

I’ve seen a lot of friends outraged at the Met police locally advising women not to walk alone at night in the days following the disappearance of Sarah Everard. I’ve seen a posts along the lines of ‘how about telling men not to attack women instead?’

I absolutely agree with the wider point that we should be asking the question “how do we make it safe for women?” not “how do women stay out of danger?”

But in this case, was the police’s advice not just the equivalent of advising people to stay out of the water following a shark attack?

I’m so upset and angry about Sarah Everard but I cannot get incensed about the police advising women to take precautions when an unknown attacker may have still been in the area.

Women would be far safer if men were all out and not allowed to be at home, you and your children are far more likely to be assaulted /murdered / raped by your father / partner / sibling. This is the uncomfortable truth.

Please do not judge the thousands of officers who face danger on a daily basis
/ provide support / investigate horrific crimes on 1 male officer. It is not fair.

I am an officer, a mother, have also been a victim of abuse (which is why I joined the job to help other people)

The anti police rhetoric on Mumsnet is really distressing. You wound not judge all nurses on the actions of 1, would not judge all women on the actions of 1.

@bjjgirl

Women would be far safer if men were all out and not allowed to be at home, you and your children are far more likely to be assaulted /murdered / raped by your father / partner / sibling. This is the uncomfortable truth.

Please do not judge the thousands of officers who face danger on a daily basis
/ provide support / investigate horrific crimes on 1 male officer. It is not fair.

I am an officer, a mother, have also been a victim of abuse (which is why I joined the job to help other people)

The anti police rhetoric on Mumsnet is really distressing. You wound not judge all nurses on the actions of 1, would not judge all women on the actions of 1.

This.

Men are more at risk than women of random attacks in the street. .

For women they are more at risk in their own home , from their own partner

Re: lawyers asking women, "what were you wearing?" The police do that, before anything even goes to court. 2021 and they *still ask women/girls, "What were you wearing?"

I remember discussing, "What were you wearing?" as a shitty and irrelevant question many years ago at university. Finding out (from discussion of the same with friends who've experienced sexual abuse and violence) the same thing is still happening now is rubbish. Some of them were children at the time.

When they reported it to the police as adults, they've been asked, "What were you wearing?"

When challenged on that, the police officers have made excuses about why they've asked, then followed up by asking what the rapist/abuser was wearing. The people they were asking were children at the time. One person was 10 at the time of the sexual abuse.

@bjjgirl

Women would be far safer if men were all out and not allowed to be at home, you and your children are far more likely to be assaulted /murdered / raped by your father / partner / sibling. This is the uncomfortable truth.

Please do not judge the thousands of officers who face danger on a daily basis
/ provide support / investigate horrific crimes on 1 male officer. It is not fair.

I am an officer, a mother, have also been a victim of abuse (which is why I joined the job to help other people)

The anti police rhetoric on Mumsnet is really distressing. You wound not judge all nurses on the actions of 1, would not judge all women on the actions of 1.

The anti police rhetoric is presumably based on experience. Mine is.

So many people don't trust the police, and that's based on previous experience with them. In my case, the police are the last people I'd call for help, unless I absolutely *had to, based on personal experiences during the last few years.

That experience includes the police being incompetent and abusing their position, sometimes on the same occasion.

We all know that drivers only go one way down a one way street.
If you don't look both ways and the driver is wrong, you end up injured/ dead. Drivers fault but you protect yourself.
I don't walk alone at night, I know I should be able to but don't.

My dh is just as bothered he's 6ft 4, but still won't walk alone at night, it's not safe.

I tell you I've had my eyes opened the last few days.

Men I thought would understand have complained how unfair it is on men agree others I found quite standoffish have actually put a lot of effort into asking how they can behave to put women's minds and rest better.

The whole world seems upside down at the moment.

MmeLaraque you have proved the point . Anti police based on experience with individual officers.

[quote JonSnowIsALoser]@SnackSizeRaisin
That's disproportionate. You can't blame a whole group for the actions of one person. Most men do not murder strangers.

Yet it's proportionate to tell all women to stay at home at night because of actions of one man?[/quote]
No-one has asked women to stay at home at night.

I used to be a childminder . A lot of young boys are addicted to Fortnight etc including my partner and although they make friends hang out tell eachother their woes which for men can be hard I think so the bonding is great but it’s just bizarre that they are spoonfed on what looks to me as military combat training equipment ! I am sure that’s where this concept has filtered down from in my day it was pac man . Films I took some boys to the cinema and was it Justice league? Anyway it was so dark depressing and violent comparing with Superman in my day it seems pastrol by comparison . I wonder is it an outlet ? I mean young children boys want to play war and smash things up bar some exceptions . I have a brother who is lovely and a boyfriend but its still possible for me to see behaviours that need evolving . We all need to evolve to kindness as humanity in general

@ERFFER

SaraClara , no but they’re telling us not to be by ourselves - the whole point of the thread , and that’s not really any better more acceptable is it?

Where are they? Can you link me to that advice from the Met? I've been looking for it since the beginning of this thread.

I've taken the stand that they haven't because I've found nothing. But I'm happy to be proved wrong.

Greater Manchester Police response:

“Women should never have to live in fear or change their behaviour to keep themselves safe on our streets and GMP stands with this message and understands why events were planned in support of it,” they said.

So no 'women shouldn't go out at night alone' message there

My problems with it are

1. It's impractical. It gets dark at 4pm in the winter. Should women not go to work, not work shifts?

2. It's meaningless. It won't keep women safe. Women have been attacked and abducted in broad daylight too, and - of course - in their own homes.

3. It's insulting & it blames the victims. I've seen endless nonsense about what she "should have done". She was talking to her boyfriend on the phone, letting him know where she was & when she would expect to get back. The route she used is well-lighted, and she did not take shorter cuts that were less so.

4. If nobody goes out after dark apart from women who really have no choice & predatory men, does that make women safer or less safe?

I think we should ALL go out after dark, just to keep an eye out and ensure that no rapist or abductor gets away with it if we can prevent it.

Women pay taxes which maintain the roads & parks which are not safe for us to walk on. We pay for the upkeep of the police & the legal system which does not protect us.

This has to change and that's the only reasonable thing to be discussed here.

@saraclara

www.mylondon.news/news/south-london-news/anger-after-police-tell-women-20047944

Local news reporting that the Met officers were knocking on doors and providing this advice verbally to women in the area. Met on record in this article say that they provide this advice and not denying it in anyway. No record of the Met denying that their officers have been providing this advice verbally despite the media and social media coverage.

Yes it could be all made up, but then why no denial?

@Bubbinsmakesthree
And the Yemen, we sell the arms that are killing them. All the Yemeni I have met were lovely too.

??? @Bubbinsmakesthree

Mums net altered my @, wasn't you! But someone talking about Syria and injured children.......

@bjjgirl But its not just one policeman is it, ok this one murdered but general violence is practiced by many with disgusting attitudes. I can't do a comprehensive list, but there is Blair Peach, a student who was nearly killed by being hit on the head, then charged!
Many others who have died in custody. Me after an arrest at a demo, and so on.. lots of instances of police unnecessary violence. Not saying all, but many police have a nasty streak and are bullies. Perhaps psychological screening should be better???

He is not the first to murder either

Many police have a nasty streak
I have no personal experience with the police to go on but I think one problem is that positions of power and responsibility are bound to attract those who who have an authoritarian mindset and seek to abuse power.
Power tends to have a corrupting influence so there is always likely to be a problem of preventing corruption in the police

Mmmm.

Then there's the likes of the policeman who was murdered in cold blood , the trial was a farce, but it barely made MN.

If only it had been a female police officer, eh?

[quote amispeakingenglish]@bjjgirl But its not just one policeman is it, ok this one murdered but general violence is practiced by many with disgusting attitudes. I can't do a comprehensive list, but there is Blair Peach, a student who was nearly killed by being hit on the head, then charged!
Many others who have died in custody. Me after an arrest at a demo, and so on.. lots of instances of police unnecessary violence. Not saying all, but many police have a nasty streak and are bullies. Perhaps psychological screening should be better???[/quote]
Many of the most hideous women I have ever met are teachers or nurses.

I don't see anti police rhetoric on the threads at all.

One person saying that she doesn't trust them due to personal experience is not anti police rhetoric.

So what's meant is that no criticism of the police is allowed at all ever.

The met have a list of shit they've done as long as your arm. They're my force. If I want to talk about it then I will.

Seeing an org with the power they have as beyond criticism is really dangerous.

[quote Eleganz]@saraclara

www.mylondon.news/news/south-london-news/anger-after-police-tell-women-20047944

Local news reporting that the Met officers were knocking on doors and providing this advice verbally to women in the area. Met on record in this article say that they provide this advice and not denying it in anyway. No record of the Met denying that their officers have been providing this advice verbally despite the media and social media coverage.

Yes it could be all made up, but then why no denial?[/quote]
That's still anecdotal though. And if it happened it send it was purely to women in that exact area when he was still at large.

As it was door to door, I imagine the Met can't deny it happened because they weren't privy to what individual officers might have said.

But yes, something along the lines of "officers were not told to advise women as a specific group, to stay indoors during this brief period" would have clarified things.

Send = seems