Police advising women not to walk alone at night

[Bubbinsmakesthree]

I’ve seen a lot of friends outraged at the Met police locally advising women not to walk alone at night in the days following the disappearance of Sarah Everard. I’ve seen a posts along the lines of ‘how about telling men not to attack women instead?’

I absolutely agree with the wider point that we should be asking the question “how do we make it safe for women?” not “how do women stay out of danger?”

But in this case, was the police’s advice not just the equivalent of advising people to stay out of the water following a shark attack?

I’m so upset and angry about Sarah Everard but I cannot get incensed about the police advising women to take precautions when an unknown attacker may have still been in the area.

A rapist isn’t going to read it and say “oh I never thought of it that way! My bad”

Yet we expect women to change their behaviour? What if we don’t? Why should we? I’m not saying we don’t all do what we need to survive. We do.

But there is more energy spent trying to get women to change their behaviour instead of doing what we really need, which is getting the attackers - who are men - to change their’s. So because of a minority of men, all women modify their behaviour? Society should work this the other way around.

Oh I see you think some really think a curfew on all men is a genuine idea rather than a thought experiment.

Ok.

Maybe take it up with women on the thread who actually want a curfew on all men then.

A young woman was found murdered in the street in my city last week.
Then Sarah.
This is a turning point for me. Ive hit a wall.
Im just so tired of the relentless threat.

I dont know what we can do about it.
How we can make things better.
One sure fire way is by not spouting namalt and my son/grandad/next door neighbour wouldn't hurt a fly.
Ita meaningless.
Things will change. We need to keep this momentum up.
Sarah has affected women because we all could be her.
She did nothing wrong.

I haven't read the thread, sorry, so maybe this has been said already. I lived in Yorkshire at the time of the Yorkshire ripper. After a time there was an enormous movement against the women shouldn't go out alone. It was men shouldn't go out alone. Men should walk in twos or threes not women. Not us.

Sadly we don't seem to have moved on much from that. It is STILL women be careful, not men don't harm.

No I’m asking why we expect all women to change their behaviour instead of forcing all men to change theirs.

I probably haven't expressed it very well but I am asking the same thing.

agree that we need to do something about the way some men treat women, but people who murder aren't representatives of all men.

That’s not the point.
What percentage of homicides are committed by men ? 92%!

Let alone the violence that doesn’t end in murder, which racks up the percentage rate to 97% It not “people” it’s men, let’s be honest. And the decent men should be just as concerned how skewed these figures are.

Here's word that is neither male/female/man/woman.
City.
It is urban life that breeds this depraved criminality.

@vimtosogood

Here's word that is neither male/female/man/woman. City. It is urban life that breeds this depraved criminality.

Abandon cities, all ye who wish not to be damned! 🔔

Because men have been in charge of everything for millennia and everything essentially has been set up by men for men to benefit men.

Crime against women used to be property crime- a crime against her father or husband.

Men are whole complicated people and are given the benefit of the doubt (with exceptions for men in minority groups).

Women OTOH. Rape within marriage was only made illegal in the early 90s. The early 90s! Women are seen by many men as 'types'. Most men see women they know and love as people and important but outside that. Too many see MILF, old dear, jail bait etc etc. And most things in the end seem to be the fault of women.

So when it comes to sex offences. In theory society says they are very bad.

In practice it's. Why was she walking there. Why was she wearing that. Why did she get in that cab. Why did she go to her colleagues room to do some work. And then the worse stuff. Girls and women lie about it for revenge. Because they have regrets. When there's an actual case it's all. What was she thinking. He's a good lad etc etc. Men and women as well. Tend to side with the bloke.

Essentially men get the benefit of the doubt while women and girls have to fight to even get their complaint heard.

There's also often a focus on the victim and a passive voice used which invisibilises the men. It's pervasive. I do it myself. Stories on here about CSA etc. I'm sorry that happened to you. Not, I'm sorry that man did that to you. Just a small example.

That's why. Because bottom line, deep down, men are more important than women. I'm sure I'll get plenty of arguments on that but that's how it works.

If men were more important than women they'd probably live longer.

'vimtosogood

Here's word that is neither male/female/man/woman.
City.
It is urban life that breeds this depraved criminality.'

You've clearly never heard anything about the levels of sexual abuse in closed religious communities around the world then :/

Vimtosgood bit of a random comment

Do you have evidence that Britain does not have a long history of patriarchy? That government, law making etc was not created by men for men?

Any comment on the fact that rape within marriage was legal until the early 90s?

@NiceGerbil

'vimtosogood

Here's word that is neither male/female/man/woman.
City.
It is urban life that breeds this depraved criminality.'

You've clearly never heard anything about the levels of sexual abuse in closed religious communities around the world then :/

I know for a fact that all types of crime in the UK are much lower in rural areas, and much of the crime committee in rural areas is committed by city dwellers travelling out specifically.

No comment on the rape illegal thing?

Or the laws thing?

There are stacks of reasons why sexual harassment of women and girls is less in rural areas.

It's not because city men and country men are a different species.

Maybe you can think of some? I can think of loads.

Violent crime much lower in rural areas? Anyone live in Midsomer?

@vimtosogood

Here's word that is neither male/female/man/woman. City. It is urban life that breeds this depraved criminality.

So what's the solution?

There's also often a focus on the victim and a passive voice used which invisibilises the men. It's pervasive. I do it myself. Stories on here about CSA etc. I'm sorry that happened to you. Not, I'm sorry that man did that to you. Just a small example.

You are absolutely right. I can make that change today and stop using passive language to describe the violence men commit against women.

makes me think maybe I should take the machete when i go out, the machete I confiscated from a boyfriend of my DD when he became psychotic and kept her and a friend in her bedroom. He is now ex btw & on drug regime.

But then I would be arrested for simply trying to feel safe........ (yes i know all the stuff about a weapon can be turned on you etc) I speak from experience too as a young person, teenager, I was attacked and punched strangled etc. Stabbed attacker with nail scissors. Minor stomach wound. I was prosecuted. I knew him, someone's Dad.
Attacker was in his 40s and an ex boxer. He was prosecuted too but with lesser charge than me, ABH for me and has meant a loss of career for me and earnings over my life. Happened nearly 45 yrs ago but never spent. On the up side at least I know I can defend myself if necessary, in that I am able mentally to actually stab someone and not freeze.

Forgot to say, police prosecution and they refused to allow the hospital report of my injuries, the bruising around my neck and bloody lip where my face hit the wall as he hit me, to be read out in court as evidence. Must have all been my fault hey! Also how terrible of the female to actually hit back.......... Makes me so angry even now.

@NiceGerbil

No comment on the rape illegal thing?

Or the laws thing?

There are stacks of reasons why sexual harassment of women and girls is less in rural areas.

It's not because city men and country men are a different species.

Maybe you can think of some? I can think of loads.

No comment on life expectancy? Rape is indeed illegal. No argument there.

I think it is the dehumanising aspect of urban living. People don't even look at each other, much less respect each other. A victim in a rural area isn't a stranger, it's the bloke from down the road, the woman from the next street you say good morning too when you walk the dog.

Rape within marriage was only made a crime in the early 90s.

That doesn't shock you?

There are many factors why crime is higher in cities. You touch on some. I'm not sure what that helps? Lots of people around the world live in cities. You think everyone should live rurally? And that would help? I'm not sure what your point is.

Yes women around the world live longer than men. Yes men get murdered more than women. This thread is about male sexual violence though.

saraclara: Do you not think that learning self defense helps some people, sometimes, when they are attacked?

It is a false security and very bad advice unless she can get away somewhere safe quickly. An attacker knows that and will often lie in wait or stalk until conditions are right. Even if she breaks free, a man can easily outrun a woman and overpower her and subject her to even more violence due to provocation.

@NiceGerbil

Rape within marriage was only made a crime in the early 90s.

That doesn't shock you?

There are many factors why crime is higher in cities. You touch on some. I'm not sure what that helps? Lots of people around the world live in cities. You think everyone should live rurally? And that would help? I'm not sure what your point is.

Yes women around the world live longer than men. Yes men get murdered more than women. This thread is about male sexual violence though.

No, because I already knew that.

Rural life is safer and better, but ultimately there are too many people for that.

I know I don't feel safe in a city like London, in the day time.