Police advising women not to walk alone at night

[Bubbinsmakesthree]

I’ve seen a lot of friends outraged at the Met police locally advising women not to walk alone at night in the days following the disappearance of Sarah Everard. I’ve seen a posts along the lines of ‘how about telling men not to attack women instead?’

I absolutely agree with the wider point that we should be asking the question “how do we make it safe for women?” not “how do women stay out of danger?”

But in this case, was the police’s advice not just the equivalent of advising people to stay out of the water following a shark attack?

I’m so upset and angry about Sarah Everard but I cannot get incensed about the police advising women to take precautions when an unknown attacker may have still been in the area.

My friend got sexually assaulted by a taxi driver . She took it to court . He was there with his family just to show he had a wife and family . All they could focus on was the length of my friends skirt . Yes really it was about what she was wearing not what he did. The fact she’d had some drinks and was a student . He got off scot free and my friend had wasted her time . So getting a taxi is not the chariot to safety

@Lavanderrose

It’s outrageous that the police focus their attention on women and expect them to change their behaviour. I feel the same when people put the responsibility on black people to not get stopped, or killed by police officers. Society needs to stop putting the focus on women and what they are supposed to do (e.g not walk home in the dark alone) the focus needs to be on MEN to change their behaviour. I’m sick and tired of men killing and abusing women.

Yes, this! I was mugged a few years ago - minutes from my home. The police were supportive but their advice was I shouldn't be out after dark! I was walking from the bus stop 5 minutes from my house. I complied for a season (I was mugged in May and it took the whole summer of DH of basically "escorting" me from the bus stop). Not a way to live a life.

NiceGerbil
Im sorry that happened to you
Its infuriating.
We need to be believed.
For it to matter.
And for proper sentencing of the scum committing these crimes.
Im at a loss how to make things better.
Im tired, sad and angry all at the same time.

'. So getting a taxi is not the chariot to safety'

And of course. John warboys.

The actions of the met around that were shocking.

And then they were going to let him out recently until there was a public outcry!

Even if taxis were safe, which we know they're not, lots of women cant afford taxis.
A taxi from my work to my home would cost me an hours wage.

The police were supportive but their advice was I shouldn't be out after dark!

Have seen a few comments like this one on the thread, just chose this as it was the most recent, not calling out this poster specifically.

Genuinely curious what advice you think the police should give? What statement do you think they should have made?

That's not helpful at all. Men already know this. Whether they are listening is another matter.

Some men may not be listening. That’s why a curfew would work. Mandate that men stay in.

Why is it ok to tell women to stay in instead of the men that are doing the attacking?

@Ijustknowitstimetogo

That's not helpful at all. Men already know this. Whether they are listening is another matter.

Some men may not be listening. That’s why a curfew would work. Mandate that men stay in.

Why is it ok to tell women to stay in instead of the men that are doing the attacking?

Nobody is telling women to stay in.

Sorry posted on another thread

Nah. A terrible man did a terrible thing to her. Doesn't make half the population rapists/murderers

Not my dad, my husband or my sons

Erm anything other than dont leave home after 4pm in the winter.
Maybe some reassurance, we believe you, we will try to catch this guy.
You really think its reasonable for women to be in home from 4pm??
Honestly some of the attitudes I've seen the last couple of days are astounding.

@JosieJarker

Erm anything other than dont leave home after 4pm in the winter. Maybe some reassurance, we believe you, we will try to catch this guy. You really think its reasonable for women to be in home from 4pm?? Honestly some of the attitudes I've seen the last couple of days are astounding.

Nobody has said that either.

But most abuse, rape and murder happens IN the home. That's a fact.

1st monkey it's hopeless 'advice' though.

In winter it gets dark before many women are home from work.

Also many women work shifts.

The advice she was given 'don't go out after dark' is totally impractical.

And is the sort of thing that has subtext, that women who do (because they have to or want to) are putting themselves at risk and if anything happens well... She was out after dark.

It's so insidious. The idea that nothing can be done about male violence, women and girls should ask understand that they are prey. And if anything does happen there will pretty much always be something she did 'wrong'.

"The police were supportive but their advice was I shouldn't be out after dark!"
The police are routinely saying this.
Davina McCall says she doesnt walk in the dark.
Lucky her. Some of us dont have a choice.
Its dark at 4.30pm in winter.

Agree it’s safety advice... it’s not victim blaming, it’s advice about staying safe. It would be nice to live in a world where you don’t have to think like this but we don’t do and that’s not going to change by just telling men not to attack women so it’s about giving helpful advice on the reality of the situation.

He has just been charged with her murder

Perhaps all schools should include martial arts as a subject in the curriculum. So that girls grow up learning how to defend themselves?

The sad truth is that violence against women is not a priority for the majority of those with the power to do something about it. Financial crimes (eg. fraud) carry much heavier sentences than violent/sexual crimes against women (if they even get to court, which is highly unlikely). Taking ‘low-level’ (not low-level for the victim I know) crimes more seriously, may go some way to deterring deviant male behaviour in its infancy before they escalate to rape & murder.

Nobody is telling women to stay in.

Yes they are.
www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-london-police-telling-women-to-stay-at-home-

@NiceGerbil i agree. It's crap advice.

But i genuinely don't think there is anything the police CAN say

Iron floor yes not a bad idea.

In general.

All the kids would need to do it though so the boys would learn as well, potentially maintaining the status quo?

When I was young there were 'women's self defence' classes. I never went but think they were female only and catered to a variety of ages and abilities.

This seems to have gone now - I looked and when you Google it's all martial arts. Which is obv fine but not the same as a short female centred course teaching specific self defence.

The kids have done 2 martial arts and tbh I found them very male centred. The intake for little ones seemed about 1/3 girls but as they got older the girls fell away.

The fact that the outfits are all white probably isn't great for pubescent/ teen girls either!

Also- and this is just an anecdote.

There were a couple of older girls in one class. One was v good. The girls paired up for the first thing then everyone had to swap. The girls were really reluctant.

Girl got put with boy who also looked unhappy about it. Girl beat boy. Boy was fighting tears. (Anger? Humiliation?). For a second I thought he was going to punch her. She looked resigned to his reaction.

They were maybe 12 or 13.

This sort of dynamic- it's not good. It's very prevalent in society though.

Girls only self defence would be cool but I doubt it would be allowed in a mixed school?

1st monkey ideally they would take reports of even low level stuff (following flashing etc) seriously and investigate.

They do know and should care that these men escalate and so catching them early will prevent worse.

They should understand that what they see as low level is not necessarily trivial to the victim.

They should tell her yes that was a crime, thank you for reporting, we will look into it.

I mean ideally.

I wouldn’t have been able to have your courage it makes a difference and it’s good that you shared this because it’s not your burden to carry the response should have been reassuring in that something’s going to stop it happening to you or anyone.

Curfew won’t work. Lots of men work shifts in all sorts of jobs, so many would be out after a certain time.
Why should anyone have a curfew because a minority of men commit heinous crimes?
The pubs and restaurants are due to open in little over two months time, stopping men going after a certain time would surely effect business.
Nobody should be stopped from going anywhere, we all have to take reasonable precautions. There has always been rapists and murderers and no amount of law changes and curfews will change that.

@NiceGerbil agree, just think those are decisions being made at a government/policy level.
It's not individual police forces who decide how and where to spend their time. They are told (and funded) to prioritise moped crime, drug crime, knife crime, whatever the focus of the month is.

I guess i'm frustrated because i feel anger is being directed in the wrong place.

[quote PinkPanther27]@rootyT00t there have been grown men throwing their toys out of the pram over this all over social media[/quote]
Well of course they will. It's an absolutely ridiculous idea, and I can barely believe that people are talking about it as if it's remotely fair or sensible a response to this incident.