to expect working mums to sort out their childcare

[nametaken]

Is it just me or do any other SAHMs get really annoyed when they get the 3 o clock phone call saying "oh can you pick XXXX up from school her nan/CM/school club can't because blah blah blah.

I mean, they choose to work - I'm a SAHM because I have 3DC and it would be a nightmare trying to organise childcare and I wouldn't want to inconvenience anyone.

I finally fell out with my friend today after one imposition too many. How nice of her to have me to pick up the slack week in week out and then when she finally feels guilty about all the unpaid childcare she asked me to do she swans off and treats her DD and my eldest DD to a cinema visit and meal!!!!!!! Something I would love to do but haven't got time to organise cause I'm too busy doing the drudge boring work.

Working mums - please don't think for a minute I've got anything against you - it's just a rant against the 3rd working mum in 3 weeks to need a favour from me.

I always used to do this because I thought "oh, well if I ever need something I can always ask them" BUT !!!!! I don't ever need anything.

Be honest, does anyone really think that SAHMs should be helping out working mums when their childcare falls through or am I just being evil.

It's certainly expensive having children whether you give up one wage or you pay for their care. Most expensive thing most of us can do.

If everyone got £200 a week regardless of income then we wouldn't have benefit scroungers, people working on the sly, tax avoidance plans, disincentives to work. Then someone who wanted to be home with their dog, thoughts, elderly mother or baby or whatever does that and lives on that universal income - obviously it's paid for by those working so in that sense is unfair but I think I'd be happier to contribute to that than the current muddle and complexity of benefits we have now. If it made 90% of the population give up work however then it wouldn't work.

Interesting Xenia. If everyone got £200 a week, would that not encourage a flood of immigration though?

If everyone got £200 a week regardless, that would just raise the cost of living by £200. It wouldn't solve any problems at all.

There is, however, quite a good argument for a universal flat-rate benefit for parents to help either mitigate the effect of one lost wage or the cost of childcare. In fact, it already exists in the UK in the form of child benefit - it just needs to be increased IMO.

I think the tax rules should be completely neutral on whether people choose to have children horses orchids or whatever. A simple tax system with low rates of tax and also universal income is fairer. What is proposed for pensioners - guaranteed minimum income of £100 a week or whatever it is is hopeless because all you do is penalise those who saved for a pension.

Immigration - we control that already from outside the EU and we could say you can't get it until you've been here for a certain period except in genuine asylum seekers cases who will also work for that - workfare.

In an economy where two wages are required to support a family (which is the case in most of Western Europe) there is a very good case for providing additional state benefits (which can take many shapes or forms, including tax breaks) to help parents pay for childcare (childcare can also be one parent stopping work).

Very different to tax breaks for horses or orchids which do not need to be nurtured in order to becoming productive members of society.

There is also an argument that governments who want their populations to increase and not decrease might find it in their interest to make childcare affordable for working parents. Currently, large families are affordable for the very wealthy and the poor. So, if we keep up this trend surely we are going to have a very small middle class and big upper and lower classes. Do we want that? I wouldn't think so.

it's a double-edged sword...

the governement doesn't want a population explosion, but also wants lots of workers to pay taxes to support the 'bubble' of pensioners, our wealthy/healthy society is making.

A lot of working mums go to work because they need the extra income rather than through choice. Also in this day and age granparents aren't at hand to help, generally they're to be found spending the inheritance in France or Spain, so juggling work and kids can indeed be a struggle, especially if parents aren't earning enough to afford a nanny. Most working mums would give their right arms for a bit of extra support. Why don't you charge to do after school pick-ups and keep everyone happy?

Not read every answer

I wonder if it is worth coming to a financial arrangement? charge what you think is fair - that may be a huge relief to you both

I for one think we are quite royally ripped off in this country in terms of tax. If this was reduced we would all have a better standard of living, and this would include parents working far longer hours than they would like to. I don't want to work long hours so I can keep someone at home tending pigeons!

ahhh, but your not. your paying MPs a 'decent' salary, expenses, your councillors, the three/four tier local government...

and their bottled water!

Eleusis - agree completely with the first part of your post. Indeed, in France there are clear government policies to encourage population growth by making children tax-deductible and childcare affordable. And the policies work.

Don't agree however that the rich class who breed will become huge - they won't. A lot of their children will become middle class. Wealth distribution in the population will always be pretty much a pyramid.

Interesting. I hadn't thought that the children of the wealthy tend to slide down to middle class. Is that really true?

Anna: "Indeed, in France there are clear government policies to encourage population growth by making children tax-deductible and childcare affordable. And the policies work."

Agree that France has been more successful in encouraging procreation. I also agree that government incentives for parents should be linked to tax-deductibility and childcare. That way, it incentivises working parents and wealth creation for the nation.

Eleusis - in any normal population wealth distribution is pretty much a pyramid. Obviously those who have greater advantages in life are more likely to stay nearer the top of the pyramid. But you never get a massive rich class, a small middle class and a massive poor class.