Holiday decline aibu

[Namechange19op]

Worked at my current employer just over 1 year less than 2

Im a single mum one little boy aged 7 my parents and family live in wales and I am in london and his dad isnt around much

Work told me today the holiday I requested for easter school holidays are declined because its over a busy period and they dont allow holidays at that time

I did work there last year at the same busy time but they altered my role to wfh with covid. My job cant really be done at home full time I open post do filing print alot of docs etc and so am back in our office. I asked if I could wfh this time but the tasks i need to do are office based.

The company is small around 20 people and 1 other lady does same job as me but no kids so she doesnt care about holidays ban

Aibu to think this is unfair. I have ZERO help. I earn a pittance (around 11k) work either mornings or afternoons depending on the day.

Senior management are not budging as other people asked for holidays and got declined. Hr is outsourced.

Aibu to think i should be given this time off

I'm not sure requesting parental leave over their busy period is going to go well. Especially as you've been there less than 2 years.

I worked in a niche position providing holidays and the times staff couldn't have holidays was clear. We were as accommodating as possible but some people couldn't find childcare. One of the directors found herself in that situation when her partner left. She also had to move into rented accommodation.

Businesses can't always cover and it's one of the reason women are at such a disadvantage job wise. I sympathise

Ultimately, you have to have some reliable childcare that you can use for situations like this if your ex won't step up. As it is the holidays, holiday clubs are the most obvious. If not, you'll have to find a babysitter, maybe a sixth former or uni student or via an agency like sitters.co.U.K.

It's not ideal, but if you want to keep this job, which actually sounds good and reasonably paid, then put a plan in place for the future.

Have you tried all of the local holiday clubs and childminders to see if any have space? They would be my first port of call before parental leave.

Yes there will be a cost, but at least you are not loosing all of your wages. You will also avoid the employers resentment.

Unfortunately the extension of time in employment before getting protection has meant that for the first two years in a job people have to avoid pissing off their employer. Yes it's shit, but until enough people care about workers rights to really push for change, it will stay the same (or get worse).

@DebbieGetsTheJobDone

They are a pretty shitty employer if they don’t have sufficient staff to allow 1 person a bit of time off in school holidays. I expect they’ll have trouble retaining decent staff.

it's not that simple.

It's generally accepted that teachers cant' take "a bit of time off" during the school year for example, even one at a time. Your head chef can't take time off on Mother's Day weekend...

If it's a decent company, it's very obvious why holidays are denied at certain times. It could be seasonal, it could be towards the end of a big project.

It's generally accepted but it does happen. I had to take time off after spending all night in hospital with my DS, well I was ready to roll in but the head called me and told me not to dare come in.

I've also had time off for a funeral as a teacher. A colleague had time off to go home (another country). Its possible but each leave request is looked at individually, just because A got to go on 'holiday' doesn't been B will get the same response. Often you don't know the complete circumstances around why a colleague isn't in.

I'd look for another job too, it's pointless having a job as a single parent if you can't take your holiday during school holidays.

@wusbanker

I'd be getting symptoms that week I think. You aren't earning enough to put the business needs above your own.

And I'd expect you'd be getting your P45 the day after!

Stupid bloody advice. Ask for holiday, don't get it so coincidentally get sick at the exact time you asked for. Even if the OP had two years, do you think employers are stupid? Pull sickies and you alienate your colleagues and your bosses, and sooner or later they will find a way of getting you back with spades.

If you aren't earning enough to do your job then there is an answer - find a better paid job, or quit and don't work. Benefits are so very generous that you'll be able to live a life of luxury and have holiday all the time.

When did you ask for the holiday OP? The only unreasonable thing here is if you requested it ages ago and they've only just told you that you can't have it.

If you're requesting leave for the Easter holidays 3 weeks before they actually start, then you're BU. Even if there wasn't a blanket ban on taking holiday, leaving it so late makes it very likely that your request will be refused due to other people getting in first. Actually it suggests that you were hedging your bets that would be able to wfh, look after your child at the same time and not need to use up holiday at all.

As others have suggested, you need to get your skates on and at least look for alternative childcare. Parental leave is no good - you need to give 3 weeks notice (at least) so again, you've left it too late. Although

You’re not the only one who faces this, there’s loads of others who work for companies where there are certain times of the year that are just not possible to take holidays. I’ve worked in a big American corporation before where you couldn’t take holidays around month or quarter ends as results needed published. Didn’t matter if that fell on Easter, Christmas/New Year or 4th July for Americans. I’ve also worked places where there’s 4 months of the year not allowed as that’s busy time. Sometimes it’s just not possible as the business has a need. You need to accept this and make arrangements or find another job I’m afraid.

Don't know whether this has been suggested but could you ask to do 2 and a half full days rather than 4 hours each day, just during the holidays?

As it's normal only slightly more expensive to have children in for a full day than a half day. Means you get time with your child and work get you during the busy times.

I actually can't get over the attitude that it's perfectly reasonable to treat employees like shit and then expect their loyalty and honesty and whatever else, for 11k a year.

Op I would find a childminder or holiday club (or parent of child's friend?) This time and then look for another job. It doesn't have to be this way, honestly. There are plenty of jobs that are reasonable with annual leave.

I don’t know if you have a class whatsapp or know any of your DS’s parents but definitely ask on there. I teach and often (when we’ve been allowed!) help out fir a few hours childcare for others in the holidays. They often will then return the favour for some to have a night out once in a while. You only need one or two to make it work - you can have their child back for few hours in afternoon. I know it’s tricky but worth a try?

@TrustTheGeneGenie

I actually can't get over the attitude that it's perfectly reasonable to treat employees like shit and then expect their loyalty and honesty and whatever else, for 11k a year.

Op I would find a childminder or holiday club (or parent of child's friend?) This time and then look for another job. It doesn't have to be this way, honestly. There are plenty of jobs that are reasonable with annual leave.

The OP works 16 hours per week. That's nearly £14 per hour.

I'd day that warrants some sort of loyalty and would argue that if her job solely consists of sorting the post then she is handsomely paid for her work.

Parental leave can be refused and given the reason you've cited for your holidays being denied it is likely parental leave will not be available to you either.

You're being irresponsible if you go sick if it is refused and this will not be a popular move with your colleagues, not to mention your employers.

Let's hope your colleagues who have also had their leave refused don't think the same as you are doing 'I did state one way or another I won't be in". If you stated that to your employer I think you probably should be looking for another job - better to resign gracefully than to be dismissed - looks much better on the CV.

You e been lucky enough to find a job that fits in with school hours over term time and pays a decent amount for such short hours. You’ve been treated the same as your other colleagues when being considered for time off. You don’t really have anything to complain about being unfair.

Worth noting to everyone who thinks OP should get the time off that your employers can determine when you take every single day of your holiday leave whether you want them or not. My DH work closes down for a week in April, two in June, one in November and over the Christmas period. Most of the bank holidays to so he has no choice of days ever,

@TrustTheGeneGenie

I actually can't get over the attitude that it's perfectly reasonable to treat employees like shit and then expect their loyalty and honesty and whatever else, for 11k a year.

Op I would find a childminder or holiday club (or parent of child's friend?) This time and then look for another job. It doesn't have to be this way, honestly. There are plenty of jobs that are reasonable with annual leave.

She's working half the week and getting 11k. Plus a significant whack on top of wtc. (though may be better off on uc with rent paid as well etc).

She's not being treated like shit. The employer is legally able to dictate when they can take their holidays, they've not said that, which would be legal to say never in school holidays, they're just saying not at Easter.
Expecting that she'd get the week off or perhaps more likely thinking she'd wfh, was naive and actually taking advantage of the employer as there'd ve an expectation that she'd have appropriate childcare in place. So either location, she'd still need childcare.
She's missed the window for parental leave and even that does not have to be awarded for the time requested.
Op knew when the easter holidays were and should have planned appropriately. As a lone parent, I am always the first person in our region to put in my holiday dates for the next year. Its a necessity.

@wusbanker

I'd be getting symptoms that week I think. You aren't earning enough to put the business needs above your own.

Well, that would be a very quick way of getting your P45 ...

I actually can't get over the attitude that it's perfectly reasonable to treat employees like shit and then expect their loyalty and honesty and whatever else, for 11k a year
Or you can look at it the other way. They offer OP the hours that suits her best on a OT basis. They allowed her to work at home last year despite not being able to really fulfill the job.

They are refusing holidays not because they are being difficult but because it is a bust period for the business.

Are organisations only good employers when they respond positively to every demands every single individual employee expects even if it results in less business?

Is this what society has become? Spoilt rotten throwing tantrums every time they don't get everything they want despite already getting a lot?

@peak2021 Gordon Bennett - well in a slightly Blackadder accent - call me naive . I think if I were a manager - and I have been - and someone called in sick and they were not to get round holiday rules I would take a hugely dim view of that - whether you like the holiday rules or not.

That does not help OP - I have sympathy with her - but honestly people saying pretend to be unwell because you want some days off when it suits you. Well - not how it is supposed to work.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

I actually can't get over the attitude that it's perfectly reasonable to treat employees like shit and then expect their loyalty and honesty and whatever else, for 11k a year.

Op I would find a childminder or holiday club (or parent of child's friend?) This time and then look for another job. It doesn't have to be this way, honestly. There are plenty of jobs that are reasonable with annual leave.

They are not treating anyone like shit. They are treating them like someone whose income depends on them producing a profit so that they can employ people to do the work! Refusing to allow someone time off at a busy period isn't treating someone like shit. It's treating them like an employee. It is not the employers concern who has children and who needs to look after them - their concern is to keep the business in profit so that one of the things that can be done with that profit is employ people like the OP.

I think far too many people misunderstand the purpose of employment. It is not something you do that you fit around everything else in your life. And whinge about if it doesn't do that. Of course, before you start a job you are perfectly entitled to explain to prospective employers that you will require them to agree to time off every school holiday, you will want to finish early on Thursdays to fit in your flower arranging class or whatever else is more important than the job that they are offering to pay you for. If they agree, that's fine. But you do not get to agree to terms and then expect to have a tantrum when you can't later have your own way. Employers have busy times, and they need staff in during those times. If that doesn't suit your personal arrangements then you must quit, not whine.

@dontdisturbmenow

I actually can't get over the attitude that it's perfectly reasonable to treat employees like shit and then expect their loyalty and honesty and whatever else, for 11k a year Or you can look at it the other way. They offer OP the hours that suits her best on a OT basis. They allowed her to work at home last year despite not being able to really fulfill the job.

They are refusing holidays not because they are being difficult but because it is a bust period for the business.

Are organisations only good employers when they respond positively to every demands every single individual employee expects even if it results in less business?

Is this what society has become? Spoilt rotten throwing tantrums every time they don't get everything they want despite already getting a lot?

I think it's unreasonable to deny holidays when it is obvious that their children will need care, yes.

@DebbieGetsTheJobDone

They are a pretty shitty employer if they don’t have sufficient staff to allow 1 person a bit of time off in school holidays. I expect they’ll have trouble retaining decent staff.

it's not that simple.

It's generally accepted that teachers cant' take "a bit of time off" during the school year for example, even one at a time. Your head chef can't take time off on Mother's Day weekend...

If it's a decent company, it's very obvious why holidays are denied at certain times. It could be seasonal, it could be towards the end of a big project.

Well yes, I do understand that.

But teachers already get all the school holidays off and Mother’s Day/Valentine’s Day are just odd days a year. Plus your head chef not getting the time off is hardly comparable to all your staff not being allowed time off.

Employees taking holiday and having to accommodate for that is an essential part of running a business. Every workplace I have ever worked so probably a fair representation of workplaces across the board has a number of staff who want at least some time off in school holidays because they have children or they are married to teachers for example. An employer that can’t permit this at all needs to take on more staff as they don’t actually have the means to run their business properly. The example of the American firm someone gave on this thread never allowing anyone off at month end is completely pathetic. That’s not a properly resourced business. Plus it also means more holidays needing to be crammed in to less of the year which means that everyone gets run into the ground covering them.

@PyongyangKipperbang

Not being insulting to the OP, far from it, but from how she described her job its seems like something a temp could step in and do for a couple of weeks. She gets unpaid leave and they use her wages to pay for a temp, its what I would do in their position!

Temps cost quite a lot more than regular employees.

I think it's unreasonable to deny holidays when it is obvious that their children will need care, yes.

You could equally argue that it's unreasonable for someone to take a job in the expectation that they will get time off for childcare at particular times without inquiring about it before taking the job.