Holiday decline aibu

[Namechange19op]

Worked at my current employer just over 1 year less than 2

Im a single mum one little boy aged 7 my parents and family live in wales and I am in london and his dad isnt around much

Work told me today the holiday I requested for easter school holidays are declined because its over a busy period and they dont allow holidays at that time

I did work there last year at the same busy time but they altered my role to wfh with covid. My job cant really be done at home full time I open post do filing print alot of docs etc and so am back in our office. I asked if I could wfh this time but the tasks i need to do are office based.

The company is small around 20 people and 1 other lady does same job as me but no kids so she doesnt care about holidays ban

Aibu to think this is unfair. I have ZERO help. I earn a pittance (around 11k) work either mornings or afternoons depending on the day.

Senior management are not budging as other people asked for holidays and got declined. Hr is outsourced.

Aibu to think i should be given this time off

@Moondust001 the purpose of employment is also not to be a drudge and be happy being treated like shit to suit an employer who would get rid of you in a heartbeat if you were surplus to requirements or would replace you without batting an eyelid if you dropped dead. I learned that the hard way.

Is it in your contract? If not, you might have a case.

I thought you were going to say that you were the only parent in the team and under those circumstances it would be a bit harsh of your employer. But you're not. Unfortunately you are not entitled to special treatment.

The job sounds good to me - the hours/pay/no stress might be hard to find elsewhere so I would be realistic.

@underneaththeash

I'd look for another job too, it's pointless having a job as a single parent if you can't take your holiday during school holidays.

Pointless? What a strange way of looking at it. Inconvenient. Difficult. Annoying. Why Pointless? 🤷‍♀️

Nope. My relative is single with no kids. she was the one that always got last dibs of the holidays and was never able to take time off during the summer as "that is kept for people who have kids". Same at Christmas, she was always expected to work. Your kids, your problem, not your employers. And yes I do have kids so know what it's like having to work and find child care in holidays.

.” Benefits are so very generous that you'll be able to live a life of luxury and have holiday all the time.”
I sure hope that this is sarcasm...

@upthekyber

https://www.gov.uk/parental-leave

It's unpaid but the beauty is they can't refuse it but you will need to request tomorrow if you want Easter off as you have to give 21 days notice.

Parental leave they can refuse and offer alternative dates

I think it's unreasonable to deny holidays when it is obvious that their children will need care, yes
A completely self-centred view of the world. My needs are more important than anyone else and everyone else has a duty to accommodate me.

OP has said that others have been turned down. Other staff who too might have childcare needs. The company is not a babysitter to put the business on hold so that employees don't want to pay for childcare. Employees who'd be the first to moan about how unfair it us that they've been made redundant because the business failed to make profit.

The world doesn't revolve around you and your needs and wishes!

@Crimblecrumble1990 - how many people with jobs have to be realistic

I do get as a single parent without back up - it's hard. But I don't believe pretending to be ill is the way to go. Finding some way of having childcare is a better way - whether that is making Dad step up or whatever - so Covid aside ( & that is a big if I realise ) but in more normal times - you could take DC to Grandparents in Wales and he can spend e.g. 1/2 term or other holidays with them .
This isn't a unique problem & yes it is hard - but if you like your job I would not lie to your employers . I don't believe not letting you have whichever days you want for holiday = treating you like shit. ( @Namechange19op - I do know those were not your words )

the purpose of employment is also not to be a drudge and be happy being treated like shit to suit an employer who would get rid of you in a heartbeat if you were surplus to requirements or would replace you without batting an eyelid if you dropped dead. I learned that the hard way
This is why there are laws. To protect employees. Law that says that employers don't have to agree every holiday requests.

Just book a holiday club rather than lose a days pay and piss off your employer. This attitude is madness

Just to add yes others do have kids almost everyone else does but they also have partners who can take time off! And parents and family near by. I dont want to move or leave my job but is that my only options here
And maybe their partners can't time off during that time for the same reasons. And it's easy to assume everyone has family that can help.

I didn't get every school holiday requests when I was a single mum. My kids has to attend holiday clubs. When I moved to a job which I only need to cover with one other person, I was so happy to find out his kids were grown up and he would be unlikely to want school holidays off. Then I found out that his wife was a teacher!

It's life, and your responsibity to find childcare arrangements.

@dontdisturbmenow

I think it's unreasonable to deny holidays when it is obvious that their children will need care, yes A completely self-centred view of the world. My needs are more important than anyone else and everyone else has a duty to accommodate me.

OP has said that others have been turned down. Other staff who too might have childcare needs. The company is not a babysitter to put the business on hold so that employees don't want to pay for childcare. Employees who'd be the first to moan about how unfair it us that they've been made redundant because the business failed to make profit.

The world doesn't revolve around you and your needs and wishes!

Yeah, most people have a self centred view of the world and care more about their children than their employer. If you didn't it would be weird.

FFS book a holiday club like the rest of us have to. Or look for a term time only job? Your lifestyle choice are not your employer's concern.

There were 13 weeks of school holidays last time I looked. Do you expect 13 weeks off work?

Would compacting your hours so you do them over 2-3 days work for the company?

I agree with those who say you shouldn't expect to be given the holiday just because of your situation. But if you think of some ways it might be possible they might be flexible?

Yeah, most people have a self centred view of the world and care more about their children than their employer. If you didn't it would be weird
Then don't work! Since when is making childcare arrangements during the holidays not caring about your children.

Thank God I've never worked with any parents with such a self indulgent attitude.

@Namechange19op YANBU

as pps have said, your employer has the right, the law is in their favour, your dc=your responsibility, etc etc

But YANBU because all this is based on old fashioned sexist employment law which assumes men are the default and don’t need time off for their kids. It’s particularly unfair given the extreme challenge of finding childcare in a pandemic lockdown. I suggest you ask for unpaid leave. And It’s a long shot but I suggest you email your MP (look up TheyWorkForYou.com and you can DM them easily). Even if your MP can’t help you this time, maybe if we all make more noise with them, the law will change and more support will be made available for working parents, especially single parents.

This is the sort of situation that makes me sigh when other women suggest we don’t need feminism any more - because we can’t all just magic a nanny out of our arse at our employer’s convenience.

Good luck.

[quote RedcurrantPuff]@Moondust001 the purpose of employment is also not to be a drudge and be happy being treated like shit to suit an employer who would get rid of you in a heartbeat if you were surplus to requirements or would replace you without batting an eyelid if you dropped dead. I learned that the hard way.[/quote]
I do not disagree and that is not what I said. The employer is not treating anyone like shit though. Refusing holiday, whatever your very good reason for wanting it, is not treating someone like shit. And £14 an hour for part-time work that suits you most weeks of the year is not shit.

You aren't the only person to have learned about employment the hard way. But employers are not social services. This is capitalism. Get over it. Everyone is entitled to leave their employment if they don't like the terms of it. It's isn't slavery. Now that is shit employment, and I'd lay bets that you support that sort of employment, or people working for crap wages in unsafe and awful conditions, every single day of your life. It's impossible to avoid it actually. Now that is shit employment and unfair. Refusing someone holiday within the law because it is the busy time for the employers - that's not unfairness. It may not be too peoples liking, but employers set the terms of employment, and they may not be perfect for people, but the UK has some of the best and "fairest" employment in the world. And it's transparent too. You are entitled to holidays but you aren't entitled to tell your employer when you will take them. In employment terms, the employers needs come first because they don't have to offer you employment. Thinking anything else is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Well I'm astonished at some attitudes here - few hours per week for 11k pa - for that money I could open some post and print some stuff off - you know what I might even answer the phone for that. ( I do not dismiss Op's job - sorry if that comes across like that because of my glib comment - I apologise - I exaggerated for effect - sorry ) But I do not that that being paid 11k p.a for a relatively low hours part time job is being "treated like shit"

On a more serious note I do get that child care when you are in that earning bracket is hard, but I do think that you do not have to have parents / family next door. When DH & I were both working full time , Ds went to Granny and Grandpa's ( 70 miles away ) or Grandma and Grandad 's ( 200m away ) over many school holidays All of them loved i t and Ds was dropped off over weekend. So clearly not a week by week answer but may be holiday time Grandma in Wales might be happy - if not then I think you do have to come up with another answer which does not rely on you being able to pick and choose holidays which suit you.

But which ever way - I do wish you well It's hard thing which many face and do get it is stressful.

Basilisk

[quote SorryAuntLydia]@Namechange19op YANBU

as pps have said, your employer has the right, the law is in their favour, your dc=your responsibility, etc etc

But YANBU because all this is based on old fashioned sexist employment law which assumes men are the default and don’t need time off for their kids. It’s particularly unfair given the extreme challenge of finding childcare in a pandemic lockdown. I suggest you ask for unpaid leave. And It’s a long shot but I suggest you email your MP (look up TheyWorkForYou.com and you can DM them easily). Even if your MP can’t help you this time, maybe if we all make more noise with them, the law will change and more support will be made available for working parents, especially single parents.

This is the sort of situation that makes me sigh when other women suggest we don’t need feminism any more - because we can’t all just magic a nanny out of our arse at our employer’s convenience.

Good luck.[/quote]
Agreed - it is time we took a serious look at some of the attitudes on display here.

All the race to the bottom Gradgrinds commenting here are the reason why we aren't making progress.

This is the sort of situation that makes me sigh when other women suggest we don’t need feminism any more
And this makes me sigh that yet again, it's seen as a sexist matter.

If the poster had said that all males in the organisation were given authorisation for all.of them to go on a fishing trip at a time of high demand, then yes, there would be a case of discrimination.

In this instance, it's not a female vs male, it's a 'no, you can't assume you are automatically entitled to take time off when it suits because you don't want to pay for childcare'.

"I think it's unreasonable to deny holidays when it is obvious that their children will need care, yes."

Nope. What about people with no children married, say, to teachers? It sucks but if you have kids and you work the old rule applies "work as if you don't have a family and parent as if you don't have a job"

If fathers stepped up more there would be fewer issues, but that's not the only (or complete) answer. I worked in jobs where month end (actually a week either side) was a no-holiday time. My DCs and my DH have birthdays on the last day of the month. I missed loads of them. It's just a fact of life

@dontdisturbmenow

Yeah, most people have a self centred view of the world and care more about their children than their employer. If you didn't it would be weird Then don't work! Since when is making childcare arrangements during the holidays not caring about your children.

Thank God I've never worked with any parents with such a self indulgent attitude.

Or you could work for one of many organisations who are family friendly.....

I do make childcare arrangements in the holidays because no we can't take 13 full weeks off but equally aren't told no sorry you have to work the entire school holiday.

It doesn't have to be work or don't work. What a stupid suggestion.

Have you considered moving back to Wales?

@Brefugee

"I think it's unreasonable to deny holidays when it is obvious that their children will need care, yes."

Nope. What about people with no children married, say, to teachers? It sucks but if you have kids and you work the old rule applies "work as if you don't have a family and parent as if you don't have a job"

If fathers stepped up more there would be fewer issues, but that's not the only (or complete) answer. I worked in jobs where month end (actually a week either side) was a no-holiday time. My DCs and my DH have birthdays on the last day of the month. I missed loads of them. It's just a fact of life

Wow. I mean, I just wouldn't do that.

And saying work like you don't have kids and parent like you don't have a job is fucking stupid. It's impossible and it's what leads people to depression and breakdowns. Work needs to understand you have kids. Kids need to understand you have work. Pretending they both don't exist is a recipe for disaster. And how tone deaf to suggest that after people have had to do both simultaneously.

just seems so unfair. Yes I know there are mainy school hols and inset days and alot more of them than i get allocated leave. I just cant believe they are not giving me any flexibility

You need a better employer. Or a better paid job so you can pay for childcare.

And why would they give you unpaid time off when they won't give you paid time off? The work needs doing either way.