To think my DH’s employer doesn’t get to dictate my career?

[ClearMountain]

DH works in web design which doesn’t necessarily require formal qualifications as long as you have good skills. I’ve previously worked in min wage hospitality and as we all know that’s gone down the toilet. So DH had the bright idea that he could teach me some of his skills and I could start freelancing from home. It seemed like a good idea because we can’t afford for me to do a degree like DH did.

For most of the past year, when I haven’t been homeschooling I’ve been studying. DH has been directing me to good tutorials and books, checking my work, and teaching me personally on a weekend. I’m nowhere near his level but I’m ready for some simple freelance projects. I’m currently attending a small business accounting course online and working with a business adviser that’s funded by a local council scheme. Great stuff, feeling positive about my future.

DH’s employer sometimes gets asked to do bits of work that are too small for them to bother with, so they redirect the client to a trusted freelancer. I asked could I be on that list? DH said he’d ask his employer but he thought it would be ok because his colleague’s Ian’s wife is on the freelance list.

DH’s employer said no. Ian’s wife is on the freelance list, but Ian works in accounting so he’s not doing the same work as his wife does, therefore there’s no conflict of interest. But DH works in web design so there’s a conflict of interest between his job and my small business. Fair enough, I guess I can’t be on the list.

This morning the employer has pulled DH into the office and said not only am I not allowed to be on the freelance list, I’m also not allowed to run my own small business at all. He feels that there’s no way DH will have absolutely nothing to do with my business - he’s bound to help me out a bit on a weekend if I’m busy, or advise me on an evening if I get stuck on a bit of coding, or take a day’s holiday and help me with a big project. Which means that instead of DH giving his employer 110% as he currently does, he’ll end up only giving 100% and giving me the other 10%. And that’s not good enough. And god forbid if I was successful and got loads of projects, DH might actually quit his job to work with me and expand my business, and that is unacceptable.

DH said I don’t think you can dictate what I do outside of work hours and you certainly can’t dictate what my wife does? The employer said if your wife goes ahead with starting this business I’ll sack you!

So we are in a shitty position now because we need DH’s salary and can’t afford for him to get sacked. But I’ve put a huge amount of work into starting a small business for myself and I’m absolutely devastated because someone I’ve never even met has just said Nope, you’re not allowed. Surely this can’t be legal?

I can see his boss's point even if he's gone over the top. Your approach is not entirely above board and there is the either real or imagined potential for clients to be poached.

It is a conflict of interests because your DH has access to his company's clients, IP and other information (such as rate cards) that could be used to help your business at the expense of his employer's business.

You need to be commercially aware to run a successful business and you haven't been here.

@G5000

Apparently it's very common for unenforceable stuff in be in contracts

You wouldn't believe how common. I've worked for big, reputable companies where the legal and HR happily agreed that some sections of the employment agreement template were not worth the paper they were written on, and no court would ever enforce them. But as long as employees didn't know that..

I was quite shocked to find this out - but that was what the employment lawyer said as well that they rely on employees not knowing and being unlikley to pay for advice.

We only took it as the firm was offering to paying for DH independent employment lawyer though going forward I can see the value of paying to get things looked over if I have concerns.

Lets cut your husband out of the deal for a minute, and accept that you will not be getting any work through their freelance list or from their company in any form.

Do you have enough experience behind you to go it alone as a freelancer, or were you relying on your husband passing work to you?

I notice you havent addressed posters who ask if you were the previous poster who was going to train and her DH didnt want to teach you - has lockdown allowed him to do so, and if so, was it all out of work time?

Would it be worth looking to take these new skills and go and work for someone else for a bit? just to get some experience behind you and to take the pressure off your husband. Then maybe you might be in a position to set up WITH your husband a bit further down the line.

Does his boss own the company? Or is there someone higher up than im that your DH could bring this up with?

*him

Your husband has trained you and now you want him to get work for you?
Do you have the necessary skills to run a business? Can you market and sell your services, manage clients, juggle deadlines, handle the tech, do all the admin?

The employers position is actually not as ridiculous as it might sound. The husband could very well be directly involved in coding that links directly to the IP of their product. In this industry, this is fiercely protected.

They do not know the OP or what the DHs true motivation is. Forget husbands/wives working together or networking through each other, that's so very common and not actually the issue at stake here.

From their perspective, they are probably now concerned that he is passing on data to his wife, that she is then potentially sharing with other companies. The innocent guise of 'teaching her' to code doesn't wash. Conflict of interest.

Acas wouldn't be worth anything here. A good corporate lawyer could take them on using the IP issue alone and they'd be out of their depth.

This has the potential to blow up and I suspect the OP is not in a position fund a lengthy legal battle in court.

Best to let it die down and look elsewhere for work. Your DH should also probably ring a recruiter and look for a new post as I suspect they will be watching very carefully.

People keep throwing around the phrase "conflict of interest" without understanding it fully.

A strict conflict of interest duty only applies to fiduciaries, such as doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc owe to their patients. It doesn't have to be in the contract because its an implied term but is apied strictly, so much so that the employee is under a positive duty to avoid it.

A lesser duty is owed by other employees to their employer but its a negative duty - the employer has to prvee that there has been a clear breach in order to take action. Unless such a breach constitutes gross misconduct (eg the giving away of business secrets), unless its in the emoyment contract, its not justifiably actionable.

The employer taking action against an employee, just because they think there might be a conflict of interest because they have a wife who works in the same field, in the absence of specific evidence, is possibly in breach of contract themselves.

If youre having to pay for legal advice just to keep your job or for your wife to be a ie to work, there comes a point that it's not financially worthwhile working for that employer.

How much is legal advice going to cost from an emoyment law specialist, and won't it most likely then need to be backed up by a letter to the employer. The employer might then reply, becessitati h a further response. So at this point you might have sent between £1000 and £2000. Plus, the fact that you entered into some form of legal dispute with your employer, might appear on any future reference.

Spell checker not a strong point on this phone!

It depends on your contract. if your husband actually helps you on competitor contracts, it could be grounds for dismissal.
I would have to declare a conflict of interest in your husband’s case, and it would mean I couldn’t work on some more sensitive projects.

I’m in a similar situation - beginner in a similar field with experienced partner. There is a high chance that you’ll be helped by your partner in completing client work, violating the terms of the contract.
While it would be hard for the company to prove and they’ve behaved very rudely, it’s not an unreasonable assumption. Just unprovable. I’d lie and just carry on as you are.

The employers position is actually not as ridiculous as it might sound. The husband could very well be directly involved in coding that links directly to the IP of their product. In this industry, this is fiercely protected

Yeah right, they're probably just using Squarespace like everyone else.

"Do you have the necessary skills to run a business? Can you market and sell your services, manage clients, juggle deadlines, handle the tech, do all the admin?"

Many freelancers learn that on the job.

poppycat10 more than likely

But you never know, they may be developing an app that secretly monitors targeted websites for social media trends, identifying emerging hot spots of resistance and rebellion that are then crushed via a DoS attack so they can take over the world (mwhahaha - maniacal laugh). Oh wait, mumsnet did that already. As you were.

OP, check your home insurance policy to see if you have legal protection insurance. It's often an extra that costs £40 or so. It would probably cover the cost of your DH getting legal advice about his position

@Gwenhwyfar

"Do you have the necessary skills to run a business? Can you market and sell your services, manage clients, juggle deadlines, handle the tech, do all the admin?"

Many freelancers learn that on the job.

Yes but they have to get the clients first - without relying on their husband to get them the work. It IS possible to learn on the job as a freelancer but you don’t have the support you would within a company so you have to learn much more quickly and learn a wider range of skills. There was a freelancer on here not long ago asking for ideas for a new business name - turns out it was for a client and on being questioned further by other freelancers who were actually trying to help it was apparent she was pretty clueless

You were told this would blow up in your face on your last thread!
It is a clear conflict of interest for your husband but you seem to feel the company owes him rather than appreciate that he is being paid way over the odds for his work.

@PlanDeRaccordement

I know it sounds unreasonable, but that is a basic noncompete conflict of interest common to most companies ethics policies that you and your DH have violated there. And it can make him ineligible to continue in his position as he will be married to a direct competitor in their business. That breaks the noncompete rules. They also can’t add you to the freelance list because your DH is in the same function and could “steer” work to you or assist you, which is also a ethical violation. The important thing with ethics is there only need be an appearance of or opportunity for unethical behaviour, not the actual occurrence. So even if you would never compete against that company for work, and your DH would never steer freelance work to you or assist, it doesn’t matter. The opportunity is there and it looks fishy to the outside ethics evaluators.

Your only way out of it is to pick a different career in IT or get a job at same level as your DH but under a different line manager with his company.

Bullshit - restraint of trade is frowned upon and no employment contract can control an employee’s spouse.

Imagine your husband was, for example, Secretary of State for Health, and you decided to set up a company supplying, let's say, PPE equipment despite having little previous experience in the industry. Would it be OK for him to push contracts your way?

If your husband has such awesome skills and such a crappy boss, it's very hard to understand why he's continued to work for him for 15 years.

Have you got any freelance experience from other businesses in this field?

Does DH's employer normally put people with no experience on their freelancer's list, or do they only list people with a portfolio of previous work?

Your DH asking to put you on the freelance list, instead of you applying through the normal channels and demonstrating your prior experience, does suggest your personal relationship is affecting his professional behaviour.

Your husband working for another business (yours) might be problematic if that is what is going to happen but his employer cannot stop you starting your own business. My guess is that they think the business is his rather than yours and will be used to siphon business away from his employer.

(Incidentally my husband and I work for competitor law firms. This is not an issue and is not that unusual!)

OP you've gone quiet!

Bootsy has some really good advice.

Your husband REALLY needs to check his employment contract around 'other employment' or similar. This has got nothing to do with restrictive covenants, its about 'in-employment' issues. All an employer has to do is to determine that on balance, your husband and his activities present a reasonable threat to their business. My view is that they would have a point on this.

the bigger issue is that your husband (and you) need to think VERY carefully about HIS relationship with HIS employer and what you BOTH want out of this.

And you also need to know that setting up as a freelancer can be a long, hard gig. It takes time to build relationships, build your profile and portfolio of work. You might get one easy gig here and there but it's hard work overall.

No need for subterfuge. You can even operate as a sole trader if you want to. But absolutely fish in another pond from wherever your husband is working.

They could be shooting themselves in the foot here. While he's still working for them, he's going to be doing his best for their business. It sounds as if you're unlikely to be after the same clients as you don't have the experience for larger jobs. If they sack him, he's going to be in need of work, and your enterprise will have his experience to draw on and might then be interested in bigger projects. Furthermore, there's a risk that clients he has been working with notice he's gone, google to see what he's doing now, and consider transferring.

They might have clauses in his contract (and the clients' contracts) that reduce the "poaching" risk, but there's still the possibility that his former clients recommend him personally rather than their company, to their friends/contacts/new employer.

On the other hand, you can see why they might be worried, and why they might think that you're setting up a new business with a iew to him transferring to it once you've got going.

Is there any chance of sitting down with his boss to talk things through? Check what's in his contract first, as obviously that makes a difference. You might discuss whether it's a problem if you work for a competitor, rather than setting up your own business. Might they have any openings for you at their company? What sort of pay-off would they be proposing if they ended his contract (particularly if there's nothing in his contract that makes your work a sackable offence)?