To think my DH’s employer doesn’t get to dictate my career?

[ClearMountain]

DH works in web design which doesn’t necessarily require formal qualifications as long as you have good skills. I’ve previously worked in min wage hospitality and as we all know that’s gone down the toilet. So DH had the bright idea that he could teach me some of his skills and I could start freelancing from home. It seemed like a good idea because we can’t afford for me to do a degree like DH did.

For most of the past year, when I haven’t been homeschooling I’ve been studying. DH has been directing me to good tutorials and books, checking my work, and teaching me personally on a weekend. I’m nowhere near his level but I’m ready for some simple freelance projects. I’m currently attending a small business accounting course online and working with a business adviser that’s funded by a local council scheme. Great stuff, feeling positive about my future.

DH’s employer sometimes gets asked to do bits of work that are too small for them to bother with, so they redirect the client to a trusted freelancer. I asked could I be on that list? DH said he’d ask his employer but he thought it would be ok because his colleague’s Ian’s wife is on the freelance list.

DH’s employer said no. Ian’s wife is on the freelance list, but Ian works in accounting so he’s not doing the same work as his wife does, therefore there’s no conflict of interest. But DH works in web design so there’s a conflict of interest between his job and my small business. Fair enough, I guess I can’t be on the list.

This morning the employer has pulled DH into the office and said not only am I not allowed to be on the freelance list, I’m also not allowed to run my own small business at all. He feels that there’s no way DH will have absolutely nothing to do with my business - he’s bound to help me out a bit on a weekend if I’m busy, or advise me on an evening if I get stuck on a bit of coding, or take a day’s holiday and help me with a big project. Which means that instead of DH giving his employer 110% as he currently does, he’ll end up only giving 100% and giving me the other 10%. And that’s not good enough. And god forbid if I was successful and got loads of projects, DH might actually quit his job to work with me and expand my business, and that is unacceptable.

DH said I don’t think you can dictate what I do outside of work hours and you certainly can’t dictate what my wife does? The employer said if your wife goes ahead with starting this business I’ll sack you!

So we are in a shitty position now because we need DH’s salary and can’t afford for him to get sacked. But I’ve put a huge amount of work into starting a small business for myself and I’m absolutely devastated because someone I’ve never even met has just said Nope, you’re not allowed. Surely this can’t be legal?

Get a copy of his contract and get some legal advice. A good employment lawyer will be able to answer this for you in an hour. He needs to get this threat in writing - he should email his boss and confirm everything he was told. This starts to lay a paper trail for any unfair dismissal.

If he has a non-compete there may be something in it. The logic is that any work you do is taking work away from DH's business and then they will benefit from DH's expertise. However I think that there's case law around freedom of working etc.

It's important to note they aren't telling you what to do. They're telling DH that he is in breach of his contract living with a direct competitor. That's what you need a lawyer to advise on. If someone else's wife is on the freelance list then that's on your side too.

@ClearMountain

How long has your DH been employed at that company? 15 years. He’s a manager, he’s been there forever so he knows literally everything about their product and clients - and his skills are amazing, he’s their superstar and they’d be in a massive hole if they lost him. He works ridiculous hours and he puts way more into his job than his contract requires. They’re shitting themselves thinking he might dare to do something other than give every ounce of his soul to them.

Well if that's the case, how about your DH sends some speculative enquiries to other employers in his field. He should be able to almost dictate his salary and terms and conditions within reason, including giving you the freedom to grow your business without your DHs employer thinking they can interfere.

Even if he doesn't actually go through with a threat to leave, if he can go back to his employer and say that I have a job offer from Rival X, who are going to pay me more for shorter hours, better equipment etc and they aren't going to interfere with my wife's freelance work, he might be able to focus their minds.

Presumably they’re not saying you can’t have your business, but that he can’t continue to work there while you have your business. He needs to check his contract to determine whether this would be considered a conflict of interest.

No. Thus is really offensive on the employer's part.

Even if this were a term written into your DH's contract of employment (and its not covered by the strict conflict of interest rule), it would be unenforcable due to being in unfair restraint of trade. Its bad enough preventing one person from earning a living in a restraint of trade clause (although potentially justifiable if very limited) but completely unreasonable to restrict a third party who doesn't even work for that employer from doing so.

It also appears to be discrimination against your DH on grounds of marriage.

@ClearMountain

How long has your DH been employed at that company? 15 years. He’s a manager, he’s been there forever so he knows literally everything about their product and clients - and his skills are amazing, he’s their superstar and they’d be in a massive hole if they lost him. He works ridiculous hours and he puts way more into his job than his contract requires. They’re shitting themselves thinking he might dare to do something other than give every ounce of his soul to them.

well, it is easy for me to say sitting here, not dependant on that salary, but it sounds to me as if they are desparate not to lose him.

If so, they aren't going to sack him.

I would refuse to discuss it further. If the manager brings it up, say something like - my wife doesn't work for you and I cannot speak/act on her behalf.
If they say that he will be sacked, ask them for the clause in his contract which he has broken. If they persist, ask for a meeting with HR, or something in writing about why he is being sacked and so on.
Basically, he does not discuss your business with his employers.

I think the only loophole may be that he has a clause preventing him from working for others. So he may need to make a statement to that effect - I am not working for my wife's business, but surely then the onus would be on the employer to prove that he is?

You may need to be careful how he gives you advice in the future, to make sure he doesn't cross that line.

@ArosGartref

I do see their point. They sound concerned that he's trying to use you as a proxy to poach clients.

Absolutely this. Also most contracts stipulate that you can't work elsewhere on top of your contracted job so if it looks like he's helping you fulfill your contracts...

It sounds like a mess and that neither of you really know what you are getting involved in.

Did you post about this before, your DH didnt want to to teach you? Sorry if I'm wrong, just confused how that resolved itself to his work now telling you what you can and can't do!

@zzzebra

On a second note, if you've registered as a limited company you may need to not involve your OH. For example by listing him as a secretary.

If you do this the employer may be able to say the 'no extra work outside of this work' has been broken (if he has that clause in his contract, that most designer do).

You don't need a company secretary nowadays, you can have just one director so this shouldn't be an issue.

He has effectively helped you set up as a competitor.
Whether that breached his contract or not is another matter

@idontlikealdi

It sounds like a mess and that neither of you really know what you are getting involved in.

Did you post about this before, your DH didnt want to to teach you? Sorry if I'm wrong, just confused how that resolved itself to his work now telling you what you can and can't do!

Yes I remember that post too and was wondering the same

I have to agree with the employer - it is a conflict of interest and could lead to your business (and your DH) poaching clients/income? Most employers don't like employees "doing foreigners" also presumably your DH would be covered by your employers PI or are you going to have individual PI for the work he might do for your business?

They could offer you a job? That way they get to keep their superstar with no risk of competition.... Whether you’d want to work for such a pig is up to you...

@ClearMountain

How long has your DH been employed at that company? 15 years. He’s a manager, he’s been there forever so he knows literally everything about their product and clients - and his skills are amazing, he’s their superstar and they’d be in a massive hole if they lost him. He works ridiculous hours and he puts way more into his job than his contract requires. They’re shitting themselves thinking he might dare to do something other than give every ounce of his soul to them.

In which case I'd call their bluff.

As long as your DH keeps to within his contract (sensitive information, conflicts of interest etc.), they can't dictate your employment.

I also think the employer is straying dangerously close to the territory of breaching the human right to a family life, and to privacy.

Obviously, they have a right to protect their business infirnation, but given that their diktat has been issued speculatively in the absence of direct evidence, it seems to be a gross assumption on their part that breaches your human rights.

If this is how they treat their 15 year superstar employee they can't afford to lose, I can't even imagine what they do to other employees.

In your DHs shoes, I would start looking for other opportunities. If he's really such a superstar with all the connections, it should not be an issue.

"I know it sounds unreasonable, but that is a basic noncompete conflict of interest common to most companies ethics policies that you and your DH have violated there. And it can make him ineligible to continue in his position as he will be married to a direct competitor in their business."

How can they have this rule without telling their employees about it?

There's some not-so-great advice here.

It's likely that your DH has a clause in his contract saying that he may not be involved in any way with any other business without the employer's express permission in writing (usually also says that this will not be unreasonably witheld). The employer has messed this up slightly because they can put any restraint on what you do, but both you and your DH have given them concern that there may be a conflict of interest. That can be in terms of competition / clients / intellectual property, but also in relation to your DP's ability to dedicate his full time and attention to his role.

Basically - back completely away from his work. Get him to reassure his employer that he has no formal involvement in your business whatsoever.

If you are starting out as a freelancer you will need to rely on his well-paid stable income.

Get your own clients.

*can't put any restraint on what you do

I’ve heard of this and he needs to check his contract. I’ve heard of people making sure contracts didn’t have this clause as often it ties you into being unable to work for anyone else in a similar business for a certain timeframe once you leave a job.

I agree with PP that he should post on the Legal board and he needs a copy of his employment contract.

While I get the idea of avoiding a conflict of interest, where does that end?

Would he be forbidden from starting a relationship with someone that happens to work in the same field? Is the employer his parents?

The company is looking at the writing on the wall, the new company is being set up on the wage from their company. It makes sense that as soon as the new company is strong enough the DH will join that company. It is common for 10 year plus star employees to branch into their own company, the difference here is that the company feel they are being pre warned. The rights and wrongs of dismissal is in the contract, but it would be stupid of the company not to see the risks.

He should check his contract on outside work and also whether he has restrictive covenants in his contract
He isn’t allowed to do anything that conflicts with his job. So for example he couldn’t personally start a business in his spare time. But they’re saying that I can’t start a business either.

However, they're also being unreasonable about their assumptions that your DH won't meet their expectations if you start your own business. After all, he's spent a year helping you and presumably they've had no problems with his work or commitment in this time?
Basically the boss is super rich (personal wealth that he had before he started the company) and he thinks he owns his employees. He used to make DH work late to do his brother’s assignments for university which the brother then passed off as his own. When I was pregnant he tried to stop DH taking paternity leave because it would ruin a big project. When I had surgery and DH asked to book a weeks holiday because I was physically unable to look after DC, he said it’s ridiculous to expect time off - just hire a nanny, isn’t that what everyone does? His housekeeper recently quit because he told her she must work 7 days for the next few weeks while he has tradesmen in the house, and he yelled and threatened her when she said I can’t, I have two children and no weekend childcare. Etc etc.

Basically he thinks people have to jump at his command. I guess he thinks he can say I’m not allowed to start a business and I’ll just say “Okay, well if you say so!” He also said to DH I’m worried if your wife starts working it will interfere with your commitment to your job, because you need to have no responsibility for your DC in order for you to give your all to this company. So that’s another good thing about her not starting a business.

@ArosGartref

I do see their point. They sound concerned that he's trying to use you as a proxy to poach clients.

But that's tough. It's like saying that my husband and I can't work for different law firms.

Instead of seeing the OP as a competitor, they should see her as someone they could collaborate and share work with. Good businesses work with each other.

Have you posted about this before? It sounds very familiar.

I also wonder if they would tell a female employee what her husband can and can't do.