To think my DH’s employer doesn’t get to dictate my career?

[ClearMountain]

DH works in web design which doesn’t necessarily require formal qualifications as long as you have good skills. I’ve previously worked in min wage hospitality and as we all know that’s gone down the toilet. So DH had the bright idea that he could teach me some of his skills and I could start freelancing from home. It seemed like a good idea because we can’t afford for me to do a degree like DH did.

For most of the past year, when I haven’t been homeschooling I’ve been studying. DH has been directing me to good tutorials and books, checking my work, and teaching me personally on a weekend. I’m nowhere near his level but I’m ready for some simple freelance projects. I’m currently attending a small business accounting course online and working with a business adviser that’s funded by a local council scheme. Great stuff, feeling positive about my future.

DH’s employer sometimes gets asked to do bits of work that are too small for them to bother with, so they redirect the client to a trusted freelancer. I asked could I be on that list? DH said he’d ask his employer but he thought it would be ok because his colleague’s Ian’s wife is on the freelance list.

DH’s employer said no. Ian’s wife is on the freelance list, but Ian works in accounting so he’s not doing the same work as his wife does, therefore there’s no conflict of interest. But DH works in web design so there’s a conflict of interest between his job and my small business. Fair enough, I guess I can’t be on the list.

This morning the employer has pulled DH into the office and said not only am I not allowed to be on the freelance list, I’m also not allowed to run my own small business at all. He feels that there’s no way DH will have absolutely nothing to do with my business - he’s bound to help me out a bit on a weekend if I’m busy, or advise me on an evening if I get stuck on a bit of coding, or take a day’s holiday and help me with a big project. Which means that instead of DH giving his employer 110% as he currently does, he’ll end up only giving 100% and giving me the other 10%. And that’s not good enough. And god forbid if I was successful and got loads of projects, DH might actually quit his job to work with me and expand my business, and that is unacceptable.

DH said I don’t think you can dictate what I do outside of work hours and you certainly can’t dictate what my wife does? The employer said if your wife goes ahead with starting this business I’ll sack you!

So we are in a shitty position now because we need DH’s salary and can’t afford for him to get sacked. But I’ve put a huge amount of work into starting a small business for myself and I’m absolutely devastated because someone I’ve never even met has just said Nope, you’re not allowed. Surely this can’t be legal?

This is hilarious. Who is your DPs boss? He sounds absolutely barking mad.

He’d have told your DP to dump you if he’d found out you were a web designer? This is crackers.

One thing I would do is ensure that none of your small business work can be traced to your partner. You must be extra careful that it bares no resemblance to any work he’s done for his clients or his employers.

If there is absolutely no links between DP and your business and there is no conflict of interest then I don’t think they have any grounds at all. But I wouldn’t absolutely get an expert (employment solicitor) opinion.

The employer sounds insane and it sounds like they take the absolute piss out of your DP - if I were him I’d be seriously weighing up my options and looking elsewhere. He sounds like he’s at the top of his game, he will also likely earn a lot more moving companies as 15 years is a long time and he’ll be out of whack with the current salary market.

Maybe it's time he looked for another company if that's the shit they're chatting
He’s really skilled and they pay him over the odds. If he left he’d be taking a £10-20k pay cut for a similar job elsewhere. That’s why he’s put up with all this shit until now - because we need the money and currently his salary is our only income.

Can you play the game? I think it's ridiculous but, as you say, your husband needs this job.

Could you put your company in someone else's name and remove any mention of names for your company? I'm guessing that it's a small company that your husband works for if they're so concerned about this.

Absolute madness. You working in the same field is not a conflict of interests. Just ignore

You and your DH need to see an employment lawyer.

@ClearMountain

Maybe it's time he looked for another company if that's the shit they're chatting He’s really skilled and they pay him over the odds. If he left he’d be taking a £10-20k pay cut for a similar job elsewhere. That’s why he’s put up with all this shit until now - because we need the money and currently his salary is our only income.

So then he has a choice to make. Personally I'd rather have a paycut to preserve my self respect.

Your dh should make some enquiries with other employers, while checking his contract with a lawyer. Perhaps send an email to his boss asking where it says he can’t be in a relationship with a competitor so anything is in writing?
While he does this, I suggest he takes up something like chess or mahjong fanatically. By training rigorously with an expert friend (so you dont need to find something with session times that seem feasible to fake his story) So that he has to leave work at 5:30 twice a week to go meet his friend for the chess training sessions. And Saturday is chess plus his new cycling hobby so he csnt catch up with that piece of work. Just pull back. Shitty employers don’t deserve his 110%.

Are you the poster who posted not so long ago that you wanted your DH to teach you this coding/web design or whatever it is and get smaller contracts for you and he was reluctant to do this ?

Perhaps it’s your DH that doesn’t want to be hustling for you within his company.

My husband and I both work in the same industry. I am client side, commissioning work in that industry (and with serious budgets as well), he owns a business providing those services. I own shares in his business. The only restriction is that he is not allowed on our vendor list for that particular service (I do other stuff as well). He sometimes does work for a third party that I have placed an order with as part of a larger project and then we sometimes end up corresponding with each other. He writes me these beautiful formal emails and it's genuinely funny. Everyone knows. We have the same very unusual surname. My employer trusts me to behave with integrity although does keep on eye on.

Restraint of trade clauses effectively put conflict of interest scenarios into contractual form and guard against them. He doesnt owe fiduciary duties so the wider meaning of conflict of interest doesnt apply, only the narrower one as defined in his contract.

Restraint of trade clauses are only enforcable if they are sufficiently limited in duration, extent and geographically. People cannot be excluded from earning a living for ever more. Neither can they be used to restrict the human right to a family life or to privacy.

Now, if the OP had been proven to be a business competitor, this might be a reasonable request by the employer. But she is not, she is his wife, and certain assumptions are being made by the employer here.

It seems that the employer is more concerned that your DH is giving away trade secrets or business. Again, if there is no evidence of that and the employer is merely firing off a warning shot, the emoyer needs to tread carefully in the siecifuc wording they choose, so as not to discriminate on friends of marriage or breach his human rights.

Many emloyees are married to those working in a similar field to business competitors. The employer here seems to be making a specific objection to their emoyee's wife developing her own business. However, she is perfectly entitled to do that even if she became a direct competitor of the husband's employer, as long as he did not give her his employee's trade secrets, customer lists, etc.

There comes a point where, in the absence of any evidence of wrongdoing, the employer may reach the common law duty of trust and confidence owed by employer to employee. It is really offensive in western society to assume that an employer gets rights over not only the emoyer, but their spouse as well.

How well paid is your DH to warrant putting up with this sort of shit? Is he well paid enough to make it worthwhile your forfeiting a potentially lucrative and fulfilling career?

This is bullshit. If they fired him because of what you do for a living I'm pretty sure you'll have a good tribunal case.

Legal advice as has been suggested. Could you really not manage on 10K-20K less with your DH working elsewhere? Then your DH can look for another job, and if successful, can walk away from all this nonsense, or has a very good negotiating position.

This is totally reasonable of his company. For things like conflict of interest and ethics it’s not only the act of doing something but the appearance of doing something.

Do not rock the boat with his stable job for your new and untested business, is my advice.

I'm guessing that it's a small company that your husband works for if they're so concerned about this.
No they are a massive company with multiple offices. I’m in no way a competitor. In fact they keep a list of freelancers to direct clients to when they request a small project that’s not worth their time. I think their main worry is that they’ll no longer be getting 110% from DH and in the long run he might have a family business that could allow him to escape from working for them.

In this scenario it is not two people who work in the same field, it is one very experienced employee whose inexperienced spouse is setting up their own company that will be reliant on the experience and reputation of the currently employed spouse. Name or no name at companies house will change the fact his current employer will see this as a joint business.

I think you were very naive to ask to go on the freelance list. It is a clear conflict of interest for your DH. If you hadn't asked they wouldn't have known you were taking this path. On the flip side, it sounds like his employer is breaking several employment laws/policies, based on issues like paternity leave and claiming he shouldn't have any DC responsibilities. There is no way I would work for a person like this - even on more money.

@ClearMountain

He should check his contract on outside work and also whether he has restrictive covenants in his contract He isn’t allowed to do anything that conflicts with his job. So for example he couldn’t personally start a business in his spare time. But they’re saying that I can’t start a business either.

However, they're also being unreasonable about their assumptions that your DH won't meet their expectations if you start your own business. After all, he's spent a year helping you and presumably they've had no problems with his work or commitment in this time?
Basically the boss is super rich (personal wealth that he had before he started the company) and he thinks he owns his employees. He used to make DH work late to do his brother’s assignments for university which the brother then passed off as his own. When I was pregnant he tried to stop DH taking paternity leave because it would ruin a big project. When I had surgery and DH asked to book a weeks holiday because I was physically unable to look after DC, he said it’s ridiculous to expect time off - just hire a nanny, isn’t that what everyone does? His housekeeper recently quit because he told her she must work 7 days for the next few weeks while he has tradesmen in the house, and he yelled and threatened her when she said I can’t, I have two children and no weekend childcare. Etc etc.

Basically he thinks people have to jump at his command. I guess he thinks he can say I’m not allowed to start a business and I’ll just say “Okay, well if you say so!” He also said to DH I’m worried if your wife starts working it will interfere with your commitment to your job, because you need to have no responsibility for your DC in order for you to give your all to this company. So that’s another good thing about her not starting a business.

You need make sure that if you set up a company for your business you don't use your husband to counter sign anything or as the company secretary.

As long as you can prove he is separate from your company then they don't have a leg to stand on. But that'll mean no help from him with clients or setting up your website, etc.

You should use your maiden name and apply to do freelance work where you can.
Play the long game and dump the company once you're both home and dry.

One thing to remember if he's a high earner and does take a pay cut to work elsewhere, and you start to pick some work up, the tax allowances might mean you're not that much worse off, as you'll pay little or no tax in the beginning and he won't lose the full drop in his headline salary as much of it will have gone on tax anyway.

Are there employers in his field with a better reputation for work life balance? I'd start looking there first. Does he actually get to take his minimum legal annual leave allowance where he is now?

No idea about the jobs market for web designers at the moment but if DH has a rep that matches his status at work it may be worth quietly sounding out jobs (as long as word doesn't get back).

May be unrealistic in the current climate and work context, but an alternative is to ask for a pay rise to cover the lost earnings from the business you are being asked not to start. Probably depends how tight his contract is too.

Your husbands company are being completely unreasonable and its obvious because they are worried that your husband will leave to work with you and become a rival. Perhaps its something you should consider!

I would not under any circumstances let them stop you doing something you have trained for, its totally ridiculous. In my field there are couples who work for rival companies! Your DH sounds like he could find a similar position very easily, I would call their bluff. Just get one with doing your own thing, its outrageous that your husbands employer thinks they or him could stop you.

I work in this industry.

Depending upon the competition clauses in his employment contract, they can raise objections to a rival company (i.e you) having access to their employees and potentially breaching client confidentiality through referals or through data breaches by discussing ongoing work. You can say you won't but it presents a risk to the company. A logs check would identify everything your husband has accessed and if they can prove a link to your work then he'll be in trouble.

Don't be under any illusion, a recruiter could replace your husband's skill set within 2 weeks and possibly upgrade as its a buyer's market at the moment.

I would make the right noises to let the issue die down and think about how you could do this without risking your husband's employment.

Your last sentence is exactly what they are worried about. The possibility you are opening a business and that potentially your H will leave taking some of his contacts with him. It's not a massive leap to think this could happen.

He needs to call acas and get advice.

The issue is the employer has made themselves clear. They will fire him and construe it as a conflict of interests as they won’t believe he doesn’t help you. You can’t afford to lose his salary. So irrelevant of what acas said, he will likely be fired.

The only options are he finds another job or you scrap the idea. Or you try to move to an area that’s not conflicting.

I think they suspect this is him setting up on his own, rather than you doing it.