Triple lock remains

[triplelock]

Name changed as I understand this probably won't be a popular opinion.

AIBU to think it's not exactly fair for the working population to have their tax thresholds frozen for 4 years while pensions get to keep their triple lock?

I understand some pensioners struggle on the state pension alone. But a lot of families also struggle on minimum wage.

Pensioners are most likely to vote, and to vote conservative. Remember when Theresa May threatened to remove the lock in her snap general election? Tories ended up having to suck up to the DUP just to have a working government. Piss off the pensioners at your peril.

@Wiredforsound

I completely agree with you.

Just so frustrating when you're scraping by to technically take a pay cut. When pensioners are going to hugely benefit from the drop and then bounce back of average wages. Estimates reckon they will get a 5% increase next year because of this.

If you think it is just a Tory thing, Labour went hard at May for even suggesting to remove it.

citywire.co.uk/funds-insider/news/corbyn-commits-to-keeping-state-pension-triple-lock/a1159539

YANBU OP. Everyone has to do their bit to support the economy right now, we all need to pull together etc, other than the pensioners who get a guaranteed 2.5% pay rise every year, whilst the rest of us take a pay cut, through frozen tax allowances.

Pensions in this country are already ridiculously low and you want to be able to reduce them more? Also pensioners don’t have the opportunity to do anything to counteract changes - it might (I don’t think it would be, for clarity, but I can see why some do) be ok to say that you will do that at a defined date well into the future so those approaching retirement have an opportunity to ensure they receive what they have planned for.
The triple lock is non-negotiable in a civilised society, in my view. I’m a Corbynite socialist not a Tory. This race to the bottom, my life is shit so everyone else’s must also be, thinking is a terrible feature of modern Britain.

@cardibach

I'm not saying they shouldn't have an increase at all.

What I'm saying is the bounce back of the economy and the triple lock is likely to mean they'll gain more in the next 4 years then they would have had Covid not happened.

IMO they should have removed the triple lock for the next 4 years and replaced it with a standard %

As I said in my OP some pensioners to struggle to get by on state pension. But a family on minimum wage in a private rental (which no doubt will go up in price over the next 4 years) will struggle equally if not more. For this whole pandemic it's been about being in it together but now that isn't the case.

Agree with you OP. The Triple Lock is, as others have said, just politically savvy - curry favor with those most likely to vote, and vote Tory. The working age population - especially the working poor - have been propping up pensioners for a while now, and looks set to continue. It's not about a race to the bottom, it's about an equitable distribution of burdens. Pensioner poverty is small in this country compared to poverty in working age population.

Don't forget that pensioners who rely on the state pension also have access to Pension Credit, which then triggers Council Tax support.

Tory government. What did you expect?

It will be almost impossible for any party to remove, they are too powerful a voting block, It's here to stay but really should be modified or removed.

@emmylousings

Don't forget that pensioners who rely on the state pension also have access to Pension Credit, which then triggers Council Tax support.

As it should.

Pensioners will be affected by the freeze in tax thresholds too, lots of pensioners pay tax. Those pensioners who have an income of less than the threshold aren't exactly rolling in it, so I don't really have a problem with the triple lock protecting their income.

@cardibach

Pensions in this country are already ridiculously low and you want to be able to reduce them more? Also pensioners don’t have the opportunity to do anything to counteract changes - it might (I don’t think it would be, for clarity, but I can see why some do) be ok to say that you will do that at a defined date well into the future so those approaching retirement have an opportunity to ensure they receive what they have planned for. The triple lock is non-negotiable in a civilised society, in my view. I’m a Corbynite socialist not a Tory. This race to the bottom, my life is shit so everyone else’s must also be, thinking is a terrible feature of modern Britain.

^this 100%

I don't study the ins and outs of this but I imagine there is an enormous difference in outgoings / wealth between pensioners who have paid off their mortgage and those who haven't/ or are paying rent.

Maybe pensions should reflect this?

@notdaddycool

It will be almost impossible for any party to remove, they are too powerful a voting block, It's here to stay but really should be modified or removed.

Why do you want to claw back money from old people who are mostly hardly wealthy?

@Charley50

I don't study the ins and outs of this but I imagine there is an enormous difference in outgoings / wealth between pensioners who have paid off their mortgage and those who haven't/ or are paying rent.

Maybe pensions should reflect this?

They do. If pensioners have rent to pay, they are entitled to housing benefit.

OP, YANBU. It's a myth that pensioners are generally poor. On the whole, they have far more disposable income than many working age families.

@Charley50

I don't study the ins and outs of this but I imagine there is an enormous difference in outgoings / wealth between pensioners who have paid off their mortgage and those who haven't/ or are paying rent.

Maybe pensions should reflect this?

Pensioners with rent to pay and no income or private pension besides the state pension are eligible for full housing benefit, and aren’t penalised by the bedroom tax. They’ll also become eligible for pension credit which currently gives a guaranteed income of £174 per week for a single person or £265 for a couple, and a full council tax exemption.

Pensioners used to be the most financially disadvantaged group in society, but no longer are. There are a lot of working couples who’d like to have over £1,000 a month left over after paying their rent and council tax. It’s not a “race to the bottom” to highlight that personal allowance freezes for working people are unfair against a triple lock for pensioners.

@Wiredforsound

Pensioners are most likely to vote, and to vote conservative. Remember when Theresa May threatened to remove the lock in her snap general election? Tories ended up having to suck up to the DUP just to have a working government. Piss off the pensioners at your peril.

I will take a perverse delight in continuing to support Labour while benefitting from the triple lock once I start getting my pension in August.

More families live in poverty than pensioners.

OP, YANBU. It's a myth that pensioners are generally poor. On the whole, they have far more disposable income than many working age families

You may be wrong there...

What is the average retirement income in the UK?

The government’s most recent data (taken from 2017/18) shows the average weekly income for pensioners to be £304 – that’s after you’ve taken away direct taxes and housing costs. This works out at around £15,080 net per year.

How does average retirement income compare to average earnings?

It’s interesting to see how much disposable income the average pensioner today receives, in comparison to the average worker. Average UK earnings – before tax or housing costs – are £30,420. After income tax, National Insurance and 5 per cent pension contributions (the recommended minimum), this is reduced to £23,111. On the face of it, this is about 50 per cent more than average retirement income.

However, this does not factor in housing costs. The average UK mortgage payment is £669 per month or £8,028 per year. If this is deducted from the average net income, the result is £15,083.

By a striking coincidence, it appears from these figures that average net income is almost exactly the same for today’s retired generation as it is for today’s working generations. This is clearly in large part due to the high cost of housing. While the retired generation may largely own their own homes outright, and have no further mortgage payments to make, the working generation is spending a large chunk of its higher income on putting a roof over its head. Consequently, net income seems to balance out to within £3 a year. It really is that close.

www.unbiased.co.uk/life/pensions-retirement/what-is-the-average-uk-retirement-income

Piss off the pensioners at your peril.

This

I'm conflicted. On the one hand, I don't think we should be arguing for a race to the bottom. On the other hand, it's not fair that people just as 'vulnerable' as pensioners aren't looked after. Look at how they've refused to uplift legacy benefits, most of whom are disabled people and carers who like pensioners CANNOT increase incomes by working. We should be raising standards for all though not lowering them. This is why people must vote (obviously not Tory 😉)

The effect of the triple lock is shown in this table. It shows that pensions have increased by 41% whereas CPI has increased by 25% and wages by 22% over the same period.

It's not about a race to the bottom, it's about an equitable distribution of burdens. Pensioner poverty is small in this country compared to poverty in working age population.

This

OP, YANBU. It's a myth that pensioners are generally poor. On the whole, they have far more disposable income than many working age families.

There is literally statistics to prove your point but you will still get

Why do you want to claw back money from old people who are mostly hardly wealthy?