Triple lock remains

[triplelock]

Name changed as I understand this probably won't be a popular opinion.

AIBU to think it's not exactly fair for the working population to have their tax thresholds frozen for 4 years while pensions get to keep their triple lock?

I understand some pensioners struggle on the state pension alone. But a lot of families also struggle on minimum wage.

@lidoshuffle

I know I'm seeing it through the eyes of pensioners I know who are able to afford nice holidays, coffees out, and sky subscriptions. Which are things I could only dream of being able to afford.

After well over 40 years of working, paying tax, paying National Insurance, paying towards their own private pensions, how very dare the oldsters have a coffee out. Such profligacy!

Well I am a pensioner lidoshuffle and I (used to) do all those things and more - apart from the sky subscription - and I did it, and will continue to do it in the future because every time I go out, or go away, take a train or a bus or a cab, buy a coffee , go to a cinema, have a meal out, go to a theatre, visit a gallery or a garden or a garden centre, buy a book or a magazine I am doing something vital for the finances of the country. I am supporting jobs, and I am supporting industries and infrastructure by contributing to the economy . My money isn’t sitting idly in a bank account , I own my property so my money isn’t being paid into a landlords pension fund. My money is out there circulating and adding to the wealth and wellbeing of the country, often by supporting the employment of people in vulnerable low paid employment whose employers rely on my grey pound. I am also keeping myself healthy and active , physically and mentally, saving the NHS money and not using up valuable doctors appointments.

So , sorry you feel hard done by lido but I am doing my best to redistribute my wealth and if I enjoy myself while I do so then tough. And btw, I also pay income tax, and VAT and council tax .........

£1148 a month for a pensioner couple after rent and council tax as a minimum amount is not poor! It’s a myth that pensioners are poor, due to tops ups thankfully they are not.

There are a few million women in this country who got less than six years notice that their pension and retirement plans were being what nonsense it was announced many years previously people just chose not to pay attention. I am not going to loose any sleep over women not getting a pension until 66!

So now that you have established that the post tax/housing incomes of pensioners and working families are near identical, compare their outgoings. Which category has got kids to feed? Which category has to keep buying clothing as kids grow?

That's because of the massive rise in housing costs rather than pensions being excessively high.

There should be a comprehensive programme of housebuilding, to reduce the cost of housing. And rather than have shonky new-builds shoehorned into cramped estates by greedy developers, capital funds could be lent to public bodies to build social housing at low rents. Once the building costs had been recouped from rents, further rental income could be used to finance more building. It would be cost-neutral in the medium to long-term.

Local authorities would be well-placed to do this. We could call the homes "council houses".

When people were able to get a secure home at a reasonable rent, they weren't so fussed about buying. I certainly wouldn't have bothered. I'd love not to have the worry of forking out for repairs and renovations.

@emmylousings

Don't forget that pensioners who rely on the state pension also have access to Pension Credit, which then triggers Council Tax support.

The new state pension is £175.20 pw, just over the pension credit threshold, but still below the cut-off for full council tax support.

@MyDcAreMarvel

There are a few million women in this country who got less than six years notice that their pension and retirement plans were being what nonsense it was announced many years previously people just chose not to pay attention. I am not going to loose any sleep over women not getting a pension until 66!

The original pensions act was brought in in the late 90s. However the pensions act of 2011 accelerated the increase of pensionable age and has caused financial (and emotional) distress to many women.

For those posters who are saying the triple-lock is protected because 'pensioners are more likely to vote'... You do realise that you can vote too?
You could also campaign for proportional representation to ensure your vote counts. IMO, the larger parties rely on public apathy to maintain the status quo.

@MyDcAreMarvel

There are a few million women in this country who got less than six years notice that their pension and retirement plans were being what nonsense it was announced many years previously people just chose not to pay attention. I am not going to loose any sleep over women not getting a pension until 66!

You’re talking about the 1996 change which we pretty much sucked up. The 2011 change pushed my pension age up by three years with five years notice. So much for pension planning, all my plans went out of the window.

Anyway, you can all comfort yourselves that the savings from the pensions of the thousands of old people who have died in the last year will be covering the increase for a bit.

@viques
Viques, you need to read my original post in context, not just the quote I was repeating from another poster.

You've totally misunderstood what I am saying. I too am a pensioner, I
have saved and contributed all my life and am appalled at the ageism here.

I got shafted by the extra 6 years of work. I'll not even get the full state pension, having been contracted out and not having enough years left before SP age to be able to make extra contributions. I'll get less than some people who have never worked after 40+ years of continual employment.

I completely agree with you. We are clearly not in this together

[quote lidoshuffle]@viques
Viques, you need to read my original post in context, not just the quote I was repeating from another poster.

You've totally misunderstood what I am saying. I too am a pensioner, I
have saved and contributed all my life and am appalled at the ageism here.

I got shafted by the extra 6 years of work. I'll not even get the full state pension, having been contracted out and not having enough years left before SP age to be able to make extra contributions. I'll get less than some people who have never worked after 40+ years of continual employment.[/quote]
Many many apologies. That will teach me to read the whole thread. From one oldie in her prime to another have your next coffee on me!

I don’t agree with complaining pensioners have it better. If working families are struggling that should be addressed but it is a false solution to drag others down with you.
Pensioners require additional protections as their options and opportunities to improve financial situations are practically non-existent compared to the working population. People on minimum wage have the opportunity to train and look for other work (not saying this is easy just pointing out this option is not available to pensioners). Planning a family is a financial commitment and is a choice that working aged people choose. Again by the time you are of pension age you have limited opportunity to reduce your financial commitments. The opportunities are not equal which is why I agree with keeping the pension lock (not to mention that will be us in decades to come)

@EL8888

I completely agree with you. We are clearly not in this together

Yes we are, the change in the personal allowance applies to everyone. The failure to invest in social care (which Johnson promised to do) will hit older people.

You need to educate yourself out of your knee-jerk ageism and stop being dim enough to fall for all this poisonous, divisive shite.

@pinkearedcow l don’t need any further education thanks . No need to be rude and obnoxious because l don’t agree with you

OK @EL8888, perhaps you are not dim. But you are ageist.

[quote EL8888]@pinkearedcow l don’t need any further education thanks . No need to be rude and obnoxious because l don’t agree with you[/quote]
Afraid you do.

@viques

Let's go mad and have a slice of cake too, seeing we are all rollling in it!

[quote lidoshuffle]@viques

Let's go mad and have a slice of cake too, seeing we are all rollling in it![/quote]
Blimey, you two - does your decadence know no bounds?

[quote lidoshuffle]@viques

Let's go mad and have a slice of cake too, seeing we are all rollling in it![/quote]
One slice! I think two don’t you? And sod the coffee/ tea, I have birthday gin to uncork. Just as well I don’t know you in RL sounds as though we would be giving OAPs a bad rep.

viques shame on you. You should be eating only gruel and burning your furniture to heat your house.

[quote triplelock]@cardibach

I'm not saying they shouldn't have an increase at all.

What I'm saying is the bounce back of the economy and the triple lock is likely to mean they'll gain more in the next 4 years then they would have had Covid not happened.

IMO they should have removed the triple lock for the next 4 years and replaced it with a standard %

As I said in my OP some pensioners to struggle to get by on state pension. But a family on minimum wage in a private rental (which no doubt will go up in price over the next 4 years) will struggle equally if not more. For this whole pandemic it's been about being in it together but now that isn't the case. [/quote]
So he should have gone after online retailers and SM

Get Amazon and co to pay a fair share of taxes in the countries in which they operate

@VinylDetective well, l don’t feel l do about this issue but thanks anyway for the suggestion. In response to the being rude and obnoxious, then it’s hardly sophisticated and well reasoned approach. If you don’t like what someone says so you throw accusations at them. It’s quite hard to get the flavour of someone from 1 sentence, l would be reluctant to accuse someone of being racist or sexist from 1 line. I literally said l agree with OP so lm ageist? That’s a bit of a leap

@Nanny0gg l only said last night Amazon and the like should be taxed properly. It’s disgusting how much tax they dodge

I literally said l agree with OP so lm ageist? That’s a bit of a leap

It’s no leap at all as the OP is ageist, if you agree then you are too.

I am very concerned at the continuing freeze on public sector pay - particularly frontline workers. However, as much as you note the situation of pensioners - I hope you realise how skewed the average is with CEOs etc retiring on millions?
What I noted more from the budget, not being a business owner, was the 10s of £1000s of grants individual businesses are getting - which is much more than the potential pension uplift. Also noted the freezing of personal allowances. I hope that the policy will be refined to benefit the poorest more