Triple lock remains

[triplelock]

Name changed as I understand this probably won't be a popular opinion.

AIBU to think it's not exactly fair for the working population to have their tax thresholds frozen for 4 years while pensions get to keep their triple lock?

I understand some pensioners struggle on the state pension alone. But a lot of families also struggle on minimum wage.

[quote EL8888]@VinylDetective well, l don’t feel l do about this issue but thanks anyway for the suggestion. In response to the being rude and obnoxious, then it’s hardly sophisticated and well reasoned approach. If you don’t like what someone says so you throw accusations at them. It’s quite hard to get the flavour of someone from 1 sentence, l would be reluctant to accuse someone of being racist or sexist from 1 line. I literally said l agree with OP so lm ageist? That’s a bit of a leap[/quote]
@EL8888 if you had set out a well thought out and reasoned argument instead of a trite "I completely agree with you. We are clearly not in this together" followed by a sarky , I would have been quite happy to have had a more constructive debate with you.

Apologies @EL8888, you ended your sentence with a not a which of course puts a more valid spin on your argument.

@jcyclops

The effect of the triple lock is shown in this table. It shows that pensions have increased by 41% whereas CPI has increased by 25% and wages by 22% over the same period.

My NHS pay has increased by less than 10% over that period.

It’s a myth that all pensioners are selfish, some of them don’t agree they should be getting larger increases either. I also think there is a difference between the older and younger pensioners in terms of income. Many, many younger pensioners have very generous final salary pensions

Many, many younger pensioners have very generous final salary pensions

That applies to pensioners of all ages, especially those who are members of the older very generous public sector schemes - the armed forces schemes aren’t even contributory.

Rather than begrudge the pensioners of today their paid-off mortgages and decent private pensions - which they presumably mostly achieved with their own money gained from their own hard work - why not aim your ire at the rampant neocapitalism and cronyism in politics that is keeping great swathes of the working population in or near poverty?

Today’s pensioners didn’t have a crystal ball to see how hard younger people would have it today. They made their choices based on the circumstances of the time, just as we all do. Envy is such an ugly and self-poisoning emotion.

what nonsense it was announced many years previously people just chose not to pay attention. I am not going to loose any sleep over women not getting a pension until 66!

more fucking charming MN ageism. And putting the boot in to women who weren't given enough notice - as PP mentioned the pensions act 2011 absoultely shafted about 100,000 women. The government have admitted it at the same time as saying they have no intentions of helping them out.

I hope you get the solitarity from other women that you give to the WASPI women.

@OnlyTheLangoftheTitBerg

Rather than begrudge the pensioners of today their paid-off mortgages and decent private pensions - which they presumably mostly achieved with their own money gained from their own hard work - why not aim your ire at the rampant neocapitalism and cronyism in politics that is keeping great swathes of the working population in or near poverty?

Today’s pensioners didn’t have a crystal ball to see how hard younger people would have it today. They made their choices based on the circumstances of the time, just as we all do. Envy is such an ugly and self-poisoning emotion.

Exactly - this toxic narrative that all pensioners have deliberately amassed and hoarded huge stacks of wealth and are shafting younger people for spite is bollocks. A lot of wealthy pensioners are no doubt helping out younger family members too.

Not only that, now the pensioners need that hoarded wealth to pay for end of life care, I'm sure their offspring will be moaning next that they don't get an inheritance. Because, you know, boomers got everything handed to them on a plate waffle yadda yadda.

*@triplelock

Neither of my grandmothers worked beyond their early 20s. Both my grandfathers retired before 60. A luxury that is not available to today's working populations.*

My parents were 91 and 94 when they died last month. They both started work at 14. Dad retired at 62 so that's so that's 48 years of working. Mum had a couple of years off when I and my siblings were young but then went back to work in the evenings so she could be with us during the day. She didn't retire until she was 65 so 51 years of working.

I know plenty of people who have worked a similar amount of years.

Considering the youngest people today start working is 17 and most go to Uni and don't start work until in their 20's how many are going to work so many years before retiring even with the retirement age being raised?

I know quite a few youngish women who have taken quite a number of years off when they had children. One of my neighbours is 29 and has worked 2 years since leaving school. She has 3 children, the youngest of which is 2. She tells me she has no intention of working until he is at least 5 or 6. How many years of work is she going to do in total?

@VinylDetective

I literally said l agree with OP so lm ageist? That’s a bit of a leap

It’s no leap at all as the OP is ageist, if you agree then you are too.

I don't really get how I'm ageist by saying if minimum wage and tax allowance is being frozen I think that the triple lock should be replaced with a simple % for the same period of time.

I'm not saying to take it away, or even freeze it completely. I'm not saying pensioners don't deserve a decent pension.

What I'm saying is the burden of paying for the pandemic should be spread across all generations. Even if the working generations have to make more of a financial sacrifice, that's ok. But I don't think pensioners should benefit (more than they would have had Covid not happened) from the drop and bounce back of wages while everyone else takes a pay cut.

Lower income pensioners could be protected from this by and increase in pension benefits.

[quote EL8888]@Nanny0gg l only said last night Amazon and the like should be taxed properly. It’s disgusting how much tax they dodge[/quote]
Agreed. This would solve a lot of problems!

@VinylDetective Anyway, you can all comfort yourselves that the savings from the pensions of the thousands of old people who have died in the last year will be covering the increase for a bit. what a vile thing to say I know personally pensioners who have died from
Covid.
If you had bothered to read my previous post I said thankfully pensioners will not be poor as they are thankfully supported by CTS and PC.
My point was 66 is a lot younger age than future generations will be before they receive a state pension of at all.

@VinylDetective I fully support the triple lock.

[quote lynsey91]*@triplelock

Neither of my grandmothers worked beyond their early 20s. Both my grandfathers retired before 60. A luxury that is not available to today's working populations.*

My parents were 91 and 94 when they died last month. They both started work at 14. Dad retired at 62 so that's so that's 48 years of working. Mum had a couple of years off when I and my siblings were young but then went back to work in the evenings so she could be with us during the day. She didn't retire until she was 65 so 51 years of working.

I know plenty of people who have worked a similar amount of years.

Considering the youngest people today start working is 17 and most go to Uni and don't start work until in their 20's how many are going to work so many years before retiring even with the retirement age being raised?

I know quite a few youngish women who have taken quite a number of years off when they had children. One of my neighbours is 29 and has worked 2 years since leaving school. She has 3 children, the youngest of which is 2. She tells me she has no intention of working until he is at least 5 or 6. How many years of work is she going to do in total?[/quote]
Personally I will probably do similar years of work. And I think a lot of people in their 30-40s will.

I started work at 16 (pre having to stay in education until 18), and worked weekends in a pub from 14. My retirement age is currently set at 68, but let's be honest, that'll rise significantly. So best case would have been 52 years.

I took 9 months out per child, couldn't afford more than that.

But this isn't about what I do, or more likely don't, get in the future. It's purely about the next 4 years while others wages, benefits and tax free allowances are being frozen.

@VinylDetective posted too soon , what I don’t support is waspis complaining when their pension is being paid for by women who may never see a state pension, and if they do will be years older than 66.

Considering the youngest people today start working is 17 and most go to Uni and don't start work until in their 20's how many are going to work so many years before retiring even with the retirement age being raised.

You have to be working and paying national insurance to build years towards your state pension though. So those years don’t count, although I think many people do work in addition to studying. Contributions have always been protected for those claiming child benefit. I’ve worked in some capacity since I was 16, that means 52 years for a retirement age of 68

It was wrong that women could retire at 60 and the right decision to raise the age to 65 in line with men. It’s wrong that pensions rise at a higher rate and above inflation. Especially if wages and other benefits are not doing that. It’s nothing to do with ageism. We have to protect the poorest, but we can’t have the inequality between working people and the retired

But this isn't about what I do, or more likely don't, get in the future. It's purely about the next 4 years while others wages, benefits and tax free allowances are being frozen

People don't have to accept their wages being frozen, they can join a union and fight back. Just like a lot of now retired people did back in the day in order to improve the terms and conditions of working people. Terms and conditions that benefited those who came after them.

People don't have to accept yet another attack on welfare benefits - they can lobby and campaign against this and unite themselves with those on benefits (never going to happen, is it?).

If younger people really don't want to protect pensioners from poverty and resent the triple lock, then get out there and vote in large numbers so that politicians begin to court the youth vote instead of the grey vote.

[quote MyDcAreMarvel]**@VinylDetective* Anyway, you can all comfort yourselves that the savings from the pensions of the thousands of old people who have died in the last year will be covering the increase for a bit.* what a vile thing to say I know personally pensioners who have died from
Covid.
If you had bothered to read my previous post I said thankfully pensioners will not be poor as they are thankfully supported by CTS and PC.
My point was 66 is a lot younger age than future generations will be before they receive a state pension of at all.[/quote]
Not vile at all. It’s a fact, however unpalatable. The government has costed the savings at something like £600,000,000. If they have bothered to cost it they are using those calculations in their spending plans.

lido very very many pensioners have not had a lifetime of 40 years of working.
MIL worked for five years, had DC and never went back.
FIL worked for 35 years then retired on a big fat pension. Now 81 and still going. Has taken out far more from the system than he ever paid in. Not unusual for that generation.

@cptartapp

lido very very many pensioners have not had a lifetime of 40 years of working. MIL worked for five years, had DC and never went back. FIL worked for 35 years then retired on a big fat pension. Now 81 and still going. Has taken out far more from the system than he ever paid in. Not unusual for that generation.

Has taken out far more from the system than he ever paid in. May we see your actual calculations for this please?

@cptartapp

lido very very many pensioners have not had a lifetime of 40 years of working. MIL worked for five years, had DC and never went back. FIL worked for 35 years then retired on a big fat pension. Now 81 and still going. Has taken out far more from the system than he ever paid in. Not unusual for that generation.

Are we playing pensioner top trumps? My mum worked from 18 to 60, with 6 months off to have me. 41.5 years. My dad worked from 15 to 65. 50 years. My grandad worked from 14 to 65 and died at 66.

Do I win?

My Dad worked from 14 to 64 then died without collecting a penny in Pension.

@cptartapp

lido very very many pensioners have not had a lifetime of 40 years of working. MIL worked for five years, had DC and never went back. FIL worked for 35 years then retired on a big fat pension. Now 81 and still going. Has taken out far more from the system than he ever paid in. Not unusual for that generation.

It’s actually very unusual for that generation. And even more for the one just behind. I had 48 years of contributions, the bloke has 47 years worth. For much of that time we were also higher tax payers, our occupational pensions mean we will continue to be taxpayers until we die. A lot of pensioners are so 20% of an increase never reaches us.

I’m pleased for our contemporaries who are dependent solely on their state pension because they never earnt enough to pay into an occupational pension.

If younger people really don't want to protect pensioners from poverty and resent the triple lock

I think we should be protecting all groups in society from living in poverty. However, the triple lock amounts to an above inflation rise every year, so it is actually increasing income year on year and many pensioners are nowhere near living in poverty. This is currently at the expense of others. Many people accepted pay freezes because of the state of the economy, unfortunately everyone has to accept slightly worse living standards apart from those who are actually living in poverty. No it’s not palatable, I hoped to retire at 60 and enjoy life having worked hard but The country can’t support people doing that and I certainly don’t think it’s fair for those younger than me to have to shoulder most of the burden. I am much more fortunate financially than someone starting out now through luck of when I was born, not through anything I’ve actually done!

My state pension will rise to approx £1000 a calendar month in April. Because I own my flat that's it, I didn't opt out into a private pension so only the state pension. Because the tax threshold is being frozen for 4 years, I will start paying tax on any triple-lock increase in a couple of years' time. I'm sorry for all the families who are struggling but I don't see how cutting my pension would help them.