Triple lock remains

[triplelock]

Name changed as I understand this probably won't be a popular opinion.

AIBU to think it's not exactly fair for the working population to have their tax thresholds frozen for 4 years while pensions get to keep their triple lock?

I understand some pensioners struggle on the state pension alone. But a lot of families also struggle on minimum wage.

I will take a perverse delight in continuing to support Labour while benefitting from the triple lock once I start getting my pension in August

I’ve been doing that since November 2018!

It’s not a “race to the bottom” to highlight that personal allowance freezes for working people are unfair against a triple lock for pensioners @ComtesseDeSpair it is if your solution to the unfairness is to criticise the triple lock rather than criticise the tax allowance freezes. That’s exactly what it is.

@cardibach

Pensions in this country are already ridiculously low and you want to be able to reduce them more? Also pensioners don’t have the opportunity to do anything to counteract changes - it might (I don’t think it would be, for clarity, but I can see why some do) be ok to say that you will do that at a defined date well into the future so those approaching retirement have an opportunity to ensure they receive what they have planned for. The triple lock is non-negotiable in a civilised society, in my view. I’m a Corbynite socialist not a Tory. This race to the bottom, my life is shit so everyone else’s must also be, thinking is a terrible feature of modern Britain.

Absolutely.

And it's divisive, setting one group against another, when we should all be campaigning for a decent standard of living for everyone.

Please don't forget that the freezing of tax thresholds applies to pensioners just the same as it does to workers. State, occupational and private pensions are all taxable under the same rules as earnings. Freezing thresholds is by far the best and fairest way to increase revenue. You will only pay more tax if you receive a pay rise, so if you earn 12,500 - 50,000 you will lose 20% of your pay rise.

I actually think the current triple lock should be replaced with a new one such as the highest of CPI, 75% of earnings and 1%.

@cardibach

It’s not a “race to the bottom” to highlight that personal allowance freezes for working people are unfair against a triple lock for pensioners *@ComtesseDeSpair* it is if your solution to the unfairness is to criticise the triple lock rather than criticise the tax allowance freezes. That’s exactly what it is.

Also as PP noted the allowance freezes will apply equally to any pensioner lucky enough to be getting enough income - so hardly unfair.

The Tories love this Daily Hate type divisive envy - oh look a pension got 10p more than me!
It distracts people from seeing where the real scandals of this government are - and they aren't about trying to give old people a little dignity.

Also for all those generational warriors - you'll be old one day (if you're lucky) - would you rather state pensions were decent or shit?
Because if you kick the ladder down now, you'll actually be the ones losing the most over the years between now and your retirement.

I doubt I will see a state pension or a free at the point of care NHS. Who will pay for it?

As others have already pointed out, this should not be a race to the bottom and we have one of the worst pensions in Europe.

I would like to see a better welfare state, not a worse one.

@fronz

I doubt I will see a state pension or a free at the point of care NHS. Who will pay for it?

I remember one of my aunts saying this in around 1965. She got her pension until the day she died and the 12 year old who heard her say it is getting hers now. 🤷‍♀️

But who will pay for it? we have an ageing population, shrinking tax paying population, shrinking private pensions & a dislike of immigration. We have a huge crisis in social care that needs to be addressed.

@DynamoKev

Also for all those generational warriors - you'll be old one day (if you're lucky) - would you rather state pensions were decent or shit? Because if you kick the ladder down now, you'll actually be the ones losing the most over the years between now and your retirement.

As if there’ll be a state pension by the time I’m old enough to retire 😂😂😂. Actually there will be, but only for those that haven’t worked to earn it!

It may not have occurred to you that many of today's pensioners also struggled to bring up a family on a low income and with very little state support.

Pensions are only ~£9k pa. Council tax, water, heating, electric, internet, insurances will pretty cost the most of this.

They've paid into the system, why do you want to screw them over?

Wealthy pensioners, possibly the ones you'd particularly expect to vote Conservative, are tax payers, so suffer from the frozen tax allowance too. State pension is taxable like any income.

The triple lock protects poorer pensioners.

What we need is to decide what level the state pension should be in relation to average earnings. Clearly it can't increase indefinitely, which would be the effect of the triple lock. I am glad that it has increased as pensioners used to be in a dreadful position, the result of the Tories severing the link with average earnings in the 80s.

@fronz

But who will pay for it? we have an ageing population, shrinking tax paying population, shrinking private pensions & a dislike of immigration. We have a huge crisis in social care that needs to be addressed.

Retirement age is being moved later. I'd like to see your figures on the shrinking tax paying population please. Using immigration to fill the gaps is a ponzi scheme unless we only accept young fit people and send them home if they start a family or get old or sick.

@emmylousings

Agree with you OP. The Triple Lock is, as others have said, just politically savvy - curry favor with those most likely to vote, and vote Tory. The working age population - especially the working poor - have been propping up pensioners for a while now, and looks set to continue. It's not about a race to the bottom, it's about an equitable distribution of burdens. Pensioner poverty is small in this country compared to poverty in working age population.

Actually as a working pensioner, who pays tax on both her pensions - via a cut to my tax free allowance (staying the same for 4 years like working age people) so I pay more tax on my wages to compensate, I think I am actually propping a lot of people up, including other pensioners and working age peoples benefits - my triple lock will be swallowed by taxes.

State pensions have the triple lock. Not any other income that they have such as occupational pensions as I understand it.

Using immigration to fill the gaps is a ponzi scheme unless we only accept young fit people and send them home if they start a family or get old or sick.

We need them to stay if they start a family, they’re creating the workforce of the future.

Retirement age is being moved late

Yes hence why I said I'm unlikely to see a state pension.

I'd like to see your figures on the shrinking tax paying population please.

more than 40% of adults pay no income tax largely because of increases to the personal tax allowance (although that is now being paused) & an ageing population. Our median age is 40.5 & will continue to rise.

Again who is going to pay?

We need them to stay if they start a family, they’re creating the workforce of the future.

Exactly & it might be a ponzi scheme but what's the alternative?

I agree OP. The sacrifices have been made to protect the old, and they are the only ones not having to pay for it.

It would be electoral suicide. May tried to adjust pensioners' benefits and her majority went straight down the pan and she had to bribe the DUP to be able to form a government.

@Fr0thandBubble

I agree OP. The sacrifices have been made to protect the old, and they are the only ones not having to pay for it.

Everyone will pay for it. You don’t magically stop being a taxpayer at pension age.