To think that we should be more honest about babies' sleep?

[star1401]

Inspired by a few threads on here I've read recently.

When I was pregnant, I had visions of rocking my baby to sleep and putting them gently down in their Moses basket where they settled for a few hours. I was under no illusion that I'd be up a few times feeding in the night, but thought I'd be able to put baby down again and go back to sleep. Aside from the nights where they were teething or poorly, this is how I thought it would be.

The reality was that neither of my babies would be put down to sleep for at least the first few weeks. Or at least if they did, they woke after 10 minutes. It wasn't because of the temperature, or the noise, or their clothing, or reflux. It was because they wanted to be close to me. I've read so many threads lately with new mums feeling so stressed because their babies won't sleep unless on them or being constantly rocked/moved.

AIBU to think that it would be far better to be honest with pregnant/new Mum friends about the realities of babies and sleeping? Yes, there will always be some babies who sleep like angels from day 1. But the vast majority of people that I know have all had babies who won't be put down to sleep.m in the early days. I'm not implying terrifying pregnant woman and telling them they'll "never sleep again." But saying "don't be surprised if your baby won't be put down to sleep, they will probably prefer sleeping on you for the first few weeks/months at least."

I remember feeling like crap because I thought my baby was the only one who wouldn't be put down. No one told me that babies often wake as soon as they are put down and that the fourth trimester is a thing. I wish someone had because I'd have spent less time over trying to get my baby down and more time just accepting that they will only sleep on me and that's that!

The thing about the only sleeping on you/not being put down...which I know is an issue, is that if you speak to older generations they don’t recognise it at all. DM described it as ‘a modern thing’. I know people including her who had really difficult sleepers but the idea of them not being put down to sleep was just so unthinkable that it didn’t happen. So what was going on? I don’t get it.

@Inkpaperstars

The thing about the only sleeping on you/not being put down...which I know is an issue, is that if you speak to older generations they don’t recognise it at all. DM described it as ‘a modern thing’. I know people including her who had really difficult sleepers but the idea of them not being put down to sleep was just so unthinkable that it didn’t happen. So what was going on? I don’t get it.

The babies gave up asking for their needs to be met, most probably causing poor attachment.

@SenecaTrewe

In that case the vast majority of people now have insecure attachments. This doesn't make sense...

Sorry also just popping up to say -

I think there is a culture on Mumsnet in particular, where sleep isn’t seen as something babies NEED, more like a nice-to-have.

When you think of how much babies grow, they must be flipping exhausted - but I believe the bright lights and colourful surroundings overstimulate them to a point where they get so worked up about being tired, that they can’t drop off. I really believe sleep begets sleep. What I really can’t recommend enough, is taking baby into a dark room whenever they do a tired cue, and gently rocking them until they drop off. That was an absolute game changer for me. Within several days, baby was nodding off within (literally) a minute of entering the room.

It really isn’t healthy for older babies and toddlers to be waking every couple of hours at night, they need sleep as much as they need food, warmth and changing. But if you mention that on here it’s all ‘Just go with the flow OP, baby will sleep if they’re tired’ etc

I also believe babies NEED to cry - they can’t talk, they build up frustrations, and crying is their way of letting those frustrations go. Don’t we all feel a bit calmer after a good cry? But mums seem to fear crying now and pick them up the moment they start crying - it’s a cycle of constant appeasement that become hard to break.

I really think cots/dark room for daytime naps/the odd bottle if breastfeeding is the way to go. Long post over 🥵

@Wondermule I rarely co-slept with DS, but when we did, it was because he wasn’t sleeping any other way.

I definitely didn’t set out to co-sleep, or do it any more than I could avoid - he is a fucking starfish.

[quote Changechangychange]@Wondermule I rarely co-slept with DS, but when we did, it was because he wasn’t sleeping any other way.

I definitely didn’t set out to co-sleep, or do it any more than I could avoid - he is a fucking starfish.[/quote]
Rarely co sleeping isn’t really co sleeping though is it? Like maybe one night out of 30? Because a habit isn’t formed.

@SenecaTrewe my DM was advised to put the baby down to sleep in the garage where she wouldn’t hear the crying and leave him there for 3-4 hours at a time. By the health visitor, I kid you not! Obviously she was horrified at the idea and didn’t do it. I have not noted any signs of poor attachment with people parented back then, but if their parents took some of the extreme advice there might be!

Both my kids slept through from a very young age. Ds9 has been up through the night a few times and dd1 has had a couple of rough nights sleep last year but it only lasted a few nights.

Dd screamed everytime she was awake so I'm assuming she slept through because she had exhausted herself from screaming all day (reflux, dairy allergy that the dr wouldn't listen to me about) I could put her down awake and she would nod off. That all stopped when she was about 8 months old and at nearly 2 still have bedtime battles every evening. Once she's asleep she is out cold.

If all goes well with this pregnancy I might eat my words on this, but I don’t think anything would persuade me to cosleep fully, ie the baby in the main bed rather than a side sleeper. I just couldn’t do something that is not recommended as safe sleep, I am terrified enough about sids as it is.

@Inkpaperstars

If all goes well with this pregnancy I might eat my words on this, but I don’t think anything would persuade me to cosleep fully, ie the baby in the main bed rather than a side sleeper. I just couldn’t do something that is not recommended as safe sleep, I am terrified enough about sids as it is.

That was my thinking - I would never have been able to forgive myself if I had co slept and we were one of the unlucky ones. Plus I really do believe sticking it out with the cot pays off after a few months.

@Wondermule Of course you “don’t know any body who started co-sleeping because their child was a nightmare sleeper”, if the people who tell you they did exactly that “don’t count”. 🤷‍♀️

I co-sleep with 10mo DS and tbh it's had no effect on his sleep and he still wakes up multiple times a night 🤷🏻‍♀️ whenever I see a post about poor sleep, people always suggest co-sleeping as the magical solution. I still continue to do it as he falls asleep slightly quicker (sometimes) and I enjoy having him really close now too so will continue to do so. I've just decided to not hold out for him ever not waking up in the nignt so when he does it'll be a nice surprise lol

And it was every single night at the worst points, with gaps of several months when he was sleeping well. Totally depended on his sleep. He came in with us last week because he had a temperature and kept waking up and asking for me, and he’s 4. First time in a year. Obviously back in his own room now.

I'm very honest about my toddlers sleep. She's been a shit sleeper since the day she was born. Over two year in and I still haven't slept through the night despite constant gentle sleep training attempts.

I say attempts as it's hell to start off with, then she does ok (maybe 1-2 wakings) then we are back to 5-6.

Love her to bits but she is contraception in human form. No way could I go through this again. My mental health has suffered, my relationship with my husband has suffered, everyone else's baby was sleeping though by about a year, mine just wanted to be nocturnal 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

@sweetpotatopie12 DS still wakes up a couple of times a night too. It does get better - DH just yells “go back to sleep DS” at him, and that is that.

My dd woke up 2x a night for the first year. I only got through it because dh would do the night shift three nights a week so I could sleep through. Ds was a bigger baby but still woke up once a night every night for a year. They both had their one daytime nap in the crib and I coslept with dd but not ds. This time around it is the sleep issue that I am most worried about as they are 3 and 4 years old now and both sleep through. The first time around it almost broke me. I slept through from 6 weeks and would sleep 8-8 for my mum but my kids are not like that. She would put me in my crib awake but tired and I would apparently just drift off. I don't know what this baby will be like and don't see the point of stressing about something when it hasn't happened yet. From the benefit of experience on my case I know it does get better but the early years are a hard slog for me sleepwise.

@Wondermule My daughter was sleeping 6-8 hour stretches at night at 3 months in her Moses basket and I thought I'd cracked this parenting lark. However, when her four month sleep regression hit and she woke every 45 minutes all night every night for EIGHT weeks, it was cosleep in bed or damage one of us. Darkened room, white noise, we do all that, no difference whatsoever.

She's still in with us having just turned a year old, because she still wakes every two hours and has done ever since that regression "ended". I agree with you, in an ideal world she'd probably be happier on a full night of sleep, so would I, but if she can't stitch sleep cycles together feeling safe, warm and cosy next to her parents, how is she going to suddenly do it in a cot on her own?

I think it's easy to say "They just have to go in a cot" if you've got a baby who sleeps relatively well in the first place, but if you've got a rotten sleeper, I think you just end up bodging something that gets you as much sleep as possible. In my case, there's a pandemic on so there's no grandparent or other support, I'm back at work so no day rescue naps, and I can't physically cope on any less sleep than I'm currently getting, so she stays

[quote Changechangychange]@sweetpotatopie12 DS still wakes up a couple of times a night too. It does get better - DH just yells “go back to sleep DS” at him, and that is that.[/quote]
My husband stepped in tonight to try and settle her (it's been me since birth as he's a night worker) and all hell has broken loose. Cue 1 he of crying even though he's right next to her.

I've tried every trick in the book, every gadget, been through HV and nursery nurses. It's awful.

I expected the first six months to be rough but this is torture on another level.

I hope it does get better. Mummy loved her sleep pre baby lol

My first DC had a natural 3 hour routine when born. I was so smug. Then he developed colic and reflux at 8 weeks old and I was less smug. He slept either wrapped on DH or as long as I was bouncing with him on a yoga ball. I remember looking at pregnant friends and thinking 'you know nothing!' DC2 slept fine from the start, and luckily (I did nothing differently) stayed that way. Years later, theyre still like little lion cubs, on me and over me at every opportunity so my advice would be to cuddle them if they want a cuddle. Do what works for you and your baby.

All babies are different . Both of mine slept well from 4-6 Weeks
Getting a routine was very important to me tho

@Inkpaperstars

The thing about the only sleeping on you/not being put down...which I know is an issue, is that if you speak to older generations they don’t recognise it at all. DM described it as ‘a modern thing’. I know people including her who had really difficult sleepers but the idea of them not being put down to sleep was just so unthinkable that it didn’t happen. So what was going on? I don’t get it.

You fed, burped, changed and swaddled them and put them in their cot with a dummy, right from the very first day. It's what we were taught in hospital (minus the dummy). It worked for all 3 of my babies, and most of the babies I knew. Obviously not all babies, according to my Mum my older brother was very unsettled, presumably some kind of colic or undiagnosed milk allergy. One of my friends also had a very unsettled baby who cried every twenty minutes or so, night and day, but he was seen as the exception. I don't think people did things like skin to skin or letting the baby sleep on them, and there was certainly no talk of a fourth trimester. The focus was on getting into a routine as quickly as possible. Personally I did do a bit of cosleeping, like if they woke up at 5am or something.

I think the reality is that most people pre children just won't believe the reality of what's to come. I remember having a conversation with DH where I said we would still be us and children would have to fit in, not the other way around. If I vocalised this to a parent I'm sure there would have been eye rolling at best. DC can be a royal pain in the bum (and much worse) but they will always come first, a fact which DH is under no illusion about.

I think it just depends on what baby you end up with. My DD fed every 4 hours from newborn and quickly settled into a routine. I found her very easy.

My DS fed every 2 hours, took 40 minutes to settle afterwards so I was getting maybe 30 minutes sleep every 2 hours. If he had been my first I've of never had a 2nd.

I think its pot luck if you get a "good" baby

I disagree, because I think people are honest about sleep. Probably the comment I heard most often was, “say good bye to sleeping!” And more detailed comments definitely covered waking as soon as you put them down. Books, internet guides, forms like this, friends, colleagues - everybody talked about lack of sleep and the many forms it takes!

Thank you OP. I agree, a lot of babies just want to be held and be near you. First few weeks are so hard and I too had visions of putting the baby down for a few hours only to be woken after 10 mins.

How your baby sleeps is pot luck from reading some of the responses.

Question is where does this guilt come from that we inflict on ourselves. Why do we feel bad if we have a poor sleeper.