To think that we should be more honest about babies' sleep?

[star1401]

Inspired by a few threads on here I've read recently.

When I was pregnant, I had visions of rocking my baby to sleep and putting them gently down in their Moses basket where they settled for a few hours. I was under no illusion that I'd be up a few times feeding in the night, but thought I'd be able to put baby down again and go back to sleep. Aside from the nights where they were teething or poorly, this is how I thought it would be.

The reality was that neither of my babies would be put down to sleep for at least the first few weeks. Or at least if they did, they woke after 10 minutes. It wasn't because of the temperature, or the noise, or their clothing, or reflux. It was because they wanted to be close to me. I've read so many threads lately with new mums feeling so stressed because their babies won't sleep unless on them or being constantly rocked/moved.

AIBU to think that it would be far better to be honest with pregnant/new Mum friends about the realities of babies and sleeping? Yes, there will always be some babies who sleep like angels from day 1. But the vast majority of people that I know have all had babies who won't be put down to sleep.m in the early days. I'm not implying terrifying pregnant woman and telling them they'll "never sleep again." But saying "don't be surprised if your baby won't be put down to sleep, they will probably prefer sleeping on you for the first few weeks/months at least."

I remember feeling like crap because I thought my baby was the only one who wouldn't be put down. No one told me that babies often wake as soon as they are put down and that the fourth trimester is a thing. I wish someone had because I'd have spent less time over trying to get my baby down and more time just accepting that they will only sleep on me and that's that!

@BertieBotts

Yes, but I never gave a bottle before my baby was about 8 months old and he took one fine (the first baby)

The point is bottle refusal (or not) is not related to whether you give them bottles early or not. Some babies refuse, some don't. It's not correlated with anything.

It is correct that all or nothing attitudes to breastfeeding seem to reduce BF rates (which makes sense) but mostly the support for BF in the UK is shit anyway so mums aren't routinely offered any support until things are really bad and then it isn't enough so they end up stopping anyway.

On the sleep topic I was responding to this: "I didn’t drop night feeds quickly. Baby just started sleeping through at about 4mo and no longer wanted them."

The breastfeeding support is brilliant in the UK. What do you mean there’s no support?

I didn't personally find that co-sleeping at 4 months made things slightly better, I found at that age it made things significantly better. When I was in hospital with a newborn for a week and had to keep trying to stay awake during feeds and then put them in the cot I hated that. Ditto when I tried settling him in a travel cot in our room at some point in the first year just to see if I could - it drove me absolutely nuts and made me feel anger and despair. I never have those feelings with co-sleeping even whe they are toddlers and there are annoying nights that they want to play musical beds and nipple twiddle all night. Annoyance, yes, anger, not to that extent.

The point at which it becomes less of a help than a hindrance is when they get more active in bed and you can't sleep properly with them, or when they're keeping you in a constant low level of alertness so you're not really getting proper sleep. I know for some people it's always like that but it wasn't for me. I love co-sleeping until they get a bit older, and for me it's absolutely worth the trade off of crap sleep around the 1-2 years mark. I will probably try what worked with DS2 about 12-18 months with DC3. Or whenever it starts to feel like co-sleeping isn't working as well any more.

I think it must just be a very personal thing and what disturbs one person will be different to what disturbs another.

I love co-sleeping until they get a bit older, and for me it's absolutely worth the trade off of crap sleep around the 1-2 years mark

So we agree just coming at it from different angles

Quite possibly yes. But I really dislike the framing of things as "rod for your own back" or "moaning" when everyone is entitled to let off steam.

@BertieBotts

But Wonder - if your baby slept through without you doing anything then surely that's just luck/the kind of baby that they are? And therefore it follows that other babies might be different.

And not giving a bottle vs giving one early doesn't actually seem to have much effect on whether or not they'll refuse one later (unless you solely bottle feed of course). The difference between a baby under 4 months vs a baby older than that is the younger baby has a sucking reflex - if you put something nipple/teat shaped in their mouth they will automatically suck and swallow. An older baby doesn't have this reflex any more so unless they have a very strong association with bottles as the way they get food, they may well have an opinion and say no thanks!

The only way to be totally sure your baby will continue to take a bottle is to fully or mostly bottle feed - and that goes against the point of breastfeeding in the first place for a lot of people. Just giving an occasional bottle doesn't really make much difference so there is no moral superiority in doing that (or in refusing to either, but it doesn't cause the baby to reject it in any case.)

I kind of disagree about the bottles. Some babies don't care, but others will simply not be interested at all if they haven't had one fairly early on - not necessarily in the first week, but maybe about the first month.

@BertieBotts

Quite possibly yes. But I really dislike the framing of things as "rod for your own back" or "moaning" when everyone is entitled to let off steam.

It’s fine for people to let off steam but if they’re steadfastly refusing to divert from their parenting beliefs to solve their problems, they can’t blame people for not wanting to hear it.

True!

I remember when my first was very little EVERYONE I spoke to said the cot/moses basket was just gathering dust every single parent of a small baby was cosleeping!! Not intended to but was! Same as me! And every single one was embarrassed of admiting it, including me!! Like we were failures. Looked more like we were the standard!

Also - yes, I would agree that in the first while, co-sleeping can be a lifesaver, maybe especially if you've had a c-section.

That' really the time when mum is not really physically recovered, breastfeeding isn't established and a new mum is still learning, and a lot of babies are very disturbed by simply being out of the womb The the air bothers them, weird feelings inside bother them, being too hungry or full bothers them, they can't settle. Some mums also are not as able to think on their feet when tired, or have less help from a spouse or family members.

My sense now is that in those first three months it's best to be very flexible and responsive, and make it work however you can. But if you can be aware, as the third month comes and goes, of starting to establish some routines, helping baby sleep or nap alone, and think about extending time between night feeds, all to the good. It won't happen all at once but if you hold those things in mind you can work toward them and that, it seems to me, is the time where it is actually most successful to get those things established.

Once ten months are gone by, it's a battle, almost not worth trying to change things till they are well into toddlerhood at two and a half or three.

@FoxyTheFox

And completely agree that safe cosleeping needs to be destigmatised and there to be much more awareness

My HV was amazing with co-sleeping. She told me that if I wanted to co-sleep it wasn't her place to tell me know but she could help me to do it safely, she offered to have a look at my bedroom to see if there were any suggestions she could make and showed me how to tuck the duvet so that I had it over me but there was no way for it to go over the baby. She was great, I miss her now my DC are older!

Had my first 2 babies somewhere else and 3rd in the UK. Just plainly told HV I was cosleeping as I did with the first 2 and that I knew all the advice about it. She wasn't very happy at all! I didn't care but if I'd been a first time mum it would have hurt me. DD1 was a high needs baby, COULD NOT put her down at all!!

I think it must just be a very personal thing and what disturbs one person will be different to what disturbs another.

Yes, I don't think we acknowledge enough that as well as all babies being different so are all parents. I tried cosleeping in desperation a few times and loathed it. It feels instinctively unsafe to me, and I found I would drift off very briefly and then wake up just a few minutes later and in a panic, so I essentially got no sleep. I know that it isn't unsafe for the vast majority of mothers - I'm confident that this is demonstrated by research - but I can't shake the feeling that it is, and I wonder if maybe it is for me because I have found that I've moved sleep position with the baby in my bed despite being reassured that that never, ever happens to a breastfeeding mother because I should have some instinct that stops me. Maybe I don't. I certainly don't have the sense of feeling more secure and reassured about the baby that many women describe. I think a lot of happy cosleepers think that everyone would be better off cosleeping, but it just doesn't work for me (and I think that's fine).

This thread has reminded me of some well meaning advice someone gave me when my second baby, the non sleeper was small and I was co sleeping just to try and get some sleep myself. I was worried I was setting a rod for my own back and I’d never get him out of my bed. She said “don’t worry, he won’t be sleeping with you when he’s 12” and we both laughed. She was right, he’ll be 12 (yes- years!) in May and we’ve finally agreed that it’s time for him to sleep in his own bed every night and not in mummy’s bed. We’ve managed 3 nights so far. Melatonin is a good thing.