Is so hard to address a woman as ‘Ms’?!

[skwish]

I’m married, but have kept my maiden name. Eldest DC has ex-P’s surname, younger ones have DH’s. Recently moved to country from big city (south of England do not exactly the Moon). DCs’ primary school staff INSIST on either calling me Mrs DH or Miss Skwish (having taken some time to stop addressing me as Mrs Ex-P). Despite many reminders, they just will not address me as Ms Skwish, which as a grown woman in her 40s, I expect to have used as default. Now seem to gravitate towards Miss Skwish which I find infantilising and offensive, as well as inaccurate.

Quietly fume every time this happens, and have now been tipped over the edge by DC1’s new secondary school, who have just addressed me as Mrs Ex-P in a reply to an email, from me , despite me signing as Firstname Skwish.

Is Ms just a city thing? Have I gone into some weird time warp? Surely Ms is normal and polite and default everywhere? AIBU?

As a middle aged spinster I take exception to a lot of these comments. The French and Germans have the right idea.

It’s curious that all the people who are politely asked why they find ‘Ms’ so abhorrent/offensive/revolting aren’t inclined to explain?

Apart from the apparent horror of being thought a spinster, of course. Naturally the only people using the word ‘spinster’ are those who are horrified at the idea of being thought one. How are we defining ‘spinster’ these days? And why is it so terrible if a stranger from the Sky billing centre thinks you’re one?

@DinosaurDiana

Its time we had a one fits all title, like Mr.

We do. It’s Ms. We just all need to use it.

Bit extreme but I did a phd mainly for the title (and because I couldn't think of anything else to do ). Now I use Dr at every available opportunity. I am married and my husband gets called Mr redkiteflying or Dr redkiteflying but only when travelling. Even when the documents all say Dr redkiteflying and Mr blue kite flying... never had the same mistake in another context

YANBU. This is a massive bug bear of mine

I think the idea of titles that communicate marital status (or in fact even communicate lack of inclination to share marital status) has no place in today’s society

Correct

In France they have restricted a grown-up woman's title to just Madame, nothing else. No indication of being married or not married. That is the equivalent of the men's title Monsieur and much better than the hotchpotch inconsistency we have here.

In English we only have Ms, which is kind of tense to pronounce, but will do, except that people think you are just saying Miss in a strange way.

Quietly fume every time this happens, and have now been tipped over the edge by DC1’s new secondary school, who have just addressed me as Mrs Ex-P in a reply to an email, from me , despite me signing as Firstname Skwish.

That’s just rude. I work in a secondary school and we were all moved over to Ms a few years ago. One of the young teachers had me change her title on something to Miss recently though.

I miss my home country where ‘bachelor and spinster balls’ were the scene of much drunkenness and debauchery in my youth.

@Notabove25

I wonder why, when creating a new title for themselves women couldn't come up with something better, something easier to say that was a real word?

I agree with PP, for all that it's supposed to be a neutral word with no real meaning, it does denote a certain sort of woman, so women really can't win.

We need a new title that applies to all adult women

We already have a term.

It is the equivalent of Mr.

Young or old, married or unmarried can use it.

It rhymes with his.

@MrMahoneysPants I'm glad your daughter has no issue with being referred to as Ms and whilst yes, some people don't see it as an issue, I do find it quite offensive when people automatically assume I go by the title of Ms purely because I am unmarried. At what point did I lose the right to remain being a Miss, my age?

It rhymes with his.

Does it? I have never heard it said like that. So it sounds like American southerners saying Miss?

[quote pennylane83]@MrMahoneysPants I'm glad your daughter has no issue with being referred to as Ms and whilst yes, some people don't see it as an issue, I do find it quite offensive when people automatically assume I go by the title of Ms purely because I am unmarried. At what point did I lose the right to remain being a Miss, my age?[/quote]
At about age 10. Can’t we all agree that Miss is for children, like Master?

And Ms equates to Mr.

It’s so simple! Just do what men do.

@Notabove25

It rhymes with his.

Does it? I have never heard it said like that. So it sounds like American southerners saying Miss?

How on Earth have you heard it pronounced?

Don’t you remember Mizz magazine.

In my experience it is a shires thing: don’t bring your new fandangoed ideas down ere Miz Skwiz Did you sell up in London, is it too late 🤔

Just keep insisting. They will learn.

Many men will also get called the 'wrong' surname in a very important time in their life - when their babies are born. Babies are given the mother's surname for security even if the plan is for baby to have Dad's surname (or double barrel) on the birth certificate. My daughter was Baby Mysurname for the week she was in hospital when she was born so my then not-my-husband-yet was called Mr Mysurname.
This happens for lots of men as so many babies are born to unmarried couples.
I wonder though - how many men actually care !! Probably zero. Because it's a small moment in time where it's not important - the child is.
Which doesn't have much to do with the Ms thing but is relevant when women get so annoyed that schools etc call them by their child's surname. Official forms and documents it's important to have the correct name but "hold on Mrs ChildsSurname can I just have a quick word" it really isn't important and not worth the fuss some people make.

I do find it quite offensive when people automatically assume I go by the title of Ms purely because I am unmarried.

Are you sure they’re not using the title purely because you’re a woman, and they don’t know your preferred title? Because that’s all Ms denotes.

At what point did I lose the right to remain being a Miss, my age?

You haven’t! Titles are (almost) entirely regulated and based on convention. We all just need to let others know what we prefer (imperfect as that situation is).

If they don’t use that title, they are rude and offensive fuckers. Up there with those who refuse to believe a woman might not change her name when married, and refuse to use her real name.

What's the point if it sounds like Miss?

There's no "i" in its spelling or pronunciation as far as I know, whìch is why it's so hard to say.

It's not something I hear said out loud often but it's more mzzz, than mizz surely?

The point is, my marital status is nobody else's business.

Not RTFT.

This is a really interesting subject to me.

The reason it was brought in was because enough women objected to their title referencing their marital status. Fair enough. The idea was that men only were called Mr and so women would be Ms. Parity!

But many women preferred miss, Mrs. (O don't understand why but that's how they feel so ok).

Over the years when this is raised, and when get called Mrs or miss when they are ms, or Ms because they are divorced (I have no idea when or where that 'rule' came in), other women are split as to whether it's not good or whether it's a trivial thing and so what, don't make a fuss. This thread is 50/50 which is par for the course.

Of course we get misnamed as well (Mrs sue husband name rather than ms sue Smith).

These ones also got a real mix of views from other women - yes it matters/ don't make a fuss.

Even putting him first on stuff the woman applied for etc got a mix of views. This happens less now thankfully.

Anyway. Some women really care and a lot of other women say it's trivial etc etc

Now we have another group with similar preferences in names etc and that gets accepted as the right thing to do in the blink of an eye. Often with explanations about why it is awful to be called the wrong title name etc. Seemingly unaware that some women have been asking to be called by their actual name for decades and been told it's not important!

The difference in the response to the two groups blows my mind.

FFS, people.

Do you pronounce Mr as it gold, frankincense and...?

@Notabove25

What's the point if it sounds like Miss?

There's no "i" in its spelling or pronunciation as far as I know, whìch is why it's so hard to say.

It's not something I hear said out loud often but it's more mzzz, than mizz surely?

It doesn’t sound like Miss. it sounds like mizz.

What's the point if it sounds like Miss?

It... doesn’t.

There's no "i" in its spelling or pronunciation as far as I know, whìch is why it's so hard to say.

Cripes, you must find Mrs and Mr a trial and a half.

It's not something I hear said out loud often but it's more mzzz, than mizz surely?

Some people say it with more of a schwa than an ‘i’. Shockingly, pronunciation isn’t universal. So it may sound more like it rhymes with the first syllable of how many people say ‘business’ or like ‘Mrs’ if you take ‘iss’ out of the middle of the standard pronunciation.

As I said upthread, only people aiming to be derogatory or belittling say it to sound like a demented trapped insect.

I get that people have their preferences, but I don't get the 'I'm offended at being called by a neutral title that means nothing except they don't know what I prefer'

It's either 'How dare they suggest I'm not married!' Or 'how dare they suggest that I'm married when I'm not!'

Neither position is particularly rational, is it?

It is also a little disrespectful for the divorced or never married women (won't use spinster as it's a terrible word) who would prefer that it just wasn't a 'thing'

I prefer Ms and I'm a teacher, so it gets used constantly by everyone. On occasion someone asks 'why?'

Why? Because I'm female and I don't need to announce my marital status to absolutely everyone who addresses me today.

Just because something has always been done doesn't mean it's not wrong - women being expected to use a title that denotes their marital status when men aren't is wrong. You may just LOVE being Mrs. HisLastName and of course you have the right to call yourself whatever absolute nonsense you please, but you're letting the side down and perpetuating the idea that women are defined by their husband and marriage in a way that men aren't.

Don't get me started on female teachers (even if they are 60 years old with two doctorates) being called 'Miss' while their male counterparts (three months out of uni, 24 years old) get 'Sir'. Complete bollocks.

Cripes, you must find Mrs and Mr a trial and a half.

Well I would if they were the actual spellings rather than abbreviations, but they're not

Well I would if they were the actual spellings rather than abbreviations, but they're not

That is also the case for ‘Ms’.