Is so hard to address a woman as ‘Ms’?!

[skwish]

I’m married, but have kept my maiden name. Eldest DC has ex-P’s surname, younger ones have DH’s. Recently moved to country from big city (south of England do not exactly the Moon). DCs’ primary school staff INSIST on either calling me Mrs DH or Miss Skwish (having taken some time to stop addressing me as Mrs Ex-P). Despite many reminders, they just will not address me as Ms Skwish, which as a grown woman in her 40s, I expect to have used as default. Now seem to gravitate towards Miss Skwish which I find infantilising and offensive, as well as inaccurate.

Quietly fume every time this happens, and have now been tipped over the edge by DC1’s new secondary school, who have just addressed me as Mrs Ex-P in a reply to an email, from me , despite me signing as Firstname Skwish.

Is Ms just a city thing? Have I gone into some weird time warp? Surely Ms is normal and polite and default everywhere? AIBU?

I've literally never met anyone above the age of about 12 who uses "Miss" and the only women I know who go by Mrs are much older women or SAHM. Ms is absolutely default and the norm where I am (London, youngish).

I'm not being ageist but I've noticed that at least a few of the posters saying they've never come across Ms in real life have also said things implying they are in their 50s or 60s. Imo it's more likely that it's a generational thing, rather than being geographic or whatever.

I've also never heard anyone use the word "Spinster" unironically, outside of period dramas!

@KatharinaRosalie

often online forms only have Mr/Mrs/Miss, so I can't have my correct title (Dr)

My favourite ones are the forms that won't accept both Dr and sex:female.

Never ever seen a form not accept dr when the sex is female.

Why are people making up problems?

I've been divorced for years but sadly going through the Courts (again) regarding child custody. I am still referred to as Mrs EvilExHusband's name which honestly makes me feel ill. I've been Miss * officially for ages but was Mrs when the proceedings started so that's why they keep referring to it.
Wonder if I can request a change? Court still ongoing...

I despise the patriarchal identification of a woman by her marital status. There should be one standard, the same as men. All those people who feel some sort of smug pride from being known as "mrs" are perpetuating the problem. Why do we need to immediately know if a woman is married by their name but not a man? Because she is apparently his possession. This is why I moved to Ms as a young adult and will remain so until i die, no matter how many times I get married.

I’m the same as @happymummy12345. I would always use the prefix indicated/preferred by others if someone I was speaking to/phoning/emailing said ‘I’m Ms Smith’ but I hate it when ‘Ms’ is used as a default when I’ve filled the form/sent the email/whatever as ‘Mrs Plummer’. My choice to be ‘Mrs’ should be given equal respect.

The question that comes to mind is why are a group of adults speaking to each other in such an oddly formal way? (I see that this is not your preference OP!)

I can't think of a single adult in my life whom I don't call by their first name. I'm on a first name basis with my children's teachers. DH is a teacher and he uses first names with parents too. I thought that was standard these days!

It’s not remotely difficult. It’s ignorant. What’s more... most of the time, it’s deliberate. It’s them sharing their opinion about your decision to choose whichever name you have gone with.

Ms is default in professional, academic circles. Also, it is quite common for academic woman to keep their maiden name after marriage as they published research papers under that name.

Here here @SuperCaliFragalistic!

@SuperCaliFragalistic

I despise the patriarchal identification of a woman by her marital status. There should be one standard, the same as men. All those people who feel some sort of smug pride from being known as "mrs" are perpetuating the problem. Why do we need to immediately know if a woman is married by their name but not a man? Because she is apparently his possession. This is why I moved to Ms as a young adult and will remain so until i die, no matter how many times I get married.

I’m the polar opposite. It’s not smug pride it’s core values for me. I don’t see it as a problem; in fact, I see increasing single parenthood as a socioeconomic problem. I believe that liberalisation isn’t always a good thing for many. Am I proud to be married and remain married? Absolutely. It’s a commitment and of benefit to society.

@WorraLiberty

They're not addressing you as Mrs 'DH' or Mrs 'Ex-H', they're addressing you by your children's surnames.

FWIW I've lived in a city all my life and have never heard anyone addressed as 'Ms', I've only seen it in writing.

Agree.

Oh good lord, now the stepford wives have turned up.

I address my Christmas cards as 'The Jones Family', but some older-generation relatives still address ours as to Mr and Mrs J Bloggs. We are (even if you default to male first) Mr J Bloggs and Dr A Jones-Blogs. I am not Mrs Bloggs, never have been.

So in the following year I tend to address their card as Mrs W Jones and Mr G Jones. Inoffensive and uses their preferred titles, yet makes the point, I think.

I have no idea what Miss, Mrs and Ms sound like, I pronounce them all the same and they all sound the same to me

I don't know why this is an issue. Men have one title and so should Women, thats why I use Ms as I don't see why women should have 3 titles to choose from, based on marital status.

If it's something non important like buying some shoes and there is no Ms option I opt for Mr as every form should have a Ms option and it really annoys me when there isn't that option!!

I have to be honest that this doesn't bother me at all - Ms, Mrs or Miss. Although I am very happy to just be called by my actual first name.

It must be hard for schools when there are 3 surnames in play as with OP

I always politely correct people to call me Miss instead of Ms or Mrs if they are speaking to me directly. I am 46 living in London. Am not married and find Ms a bit irritating. Happy being Miss. It would never make me annoyed however if people got it wrong in correspondence. It isn’t a massive deal.

Oh good lord, now the stepford wives have turned up.

Sorry @AnnieLobeseder I think I may have opened a portal with the word patriarchal.

@LemonRoses the problem with looking down your nose at single parents is that you aren't immune to it. What about if your husband has an affair and decides to move in with his secretary? Where does that leave your marriage and your values?

@LemonRoses what an odd, uneducated POV of single parents...did you know single parents are active members of society, they work and pay taxes, they have degrees and doctorates, they raise well rounded children? Did you know that if your husband decided he'd like another woman instead, or far far worse, then you might become a single parent, did you know that you are not immune to such circumstances, no matter what you tell yourself.

Single parents I know have post graduate degrees, are nurses, social workers, HR professionals. If, heaven forbid, you had a stroke and ended up in hospital, would you tell the nurse caring for you that she is a socioeconomic problem?

I’m very well aware there are many single parents doing a reasonable job. That doesn’t stop the statistical evidence that large numbers of single parents disadvantage their own children and wider society. Promoting single parenthood as the ideal is not good for anyone.

My husband won’t be making me a single parent; he believes in upholding his vows too. Luckily he didn’t die whilst children were young. Plus, our children are now adults.

The uneducated point of view is surely the one that either doesn’t know or fails to acknowledge the evidence? It might not be a message people want to hear (anymore than the view that drinking alcohol increases the risk of cancer, perhaps), but that doesn’t make it uneducated.

Children of single parents are more likely to suffer all manner of disadvantage.

I can deal with being called Ms on first correspondence when organisations can be forgiven for not knowing any better, but it’s bloody rude and offensive when they’ve been given a title to use such as Miss or Mrs and they insist on using Ms anyway.

I haven't been asked "is that Miss or Mrs" for ages, but next time I do I am going to try and remember the MN saying "no is a complete answer".

Is Ms just a city thing? Have I gone into some weird time warp? Surely Ms is normal and polite and default everywhere

Refusing to use your chosen name despite you clearly stating that name is simply bad manners. Neither town nor country have are short of people with bad manners.

Its a form of bad manners particularly directed at women but also used against people with "foreign' names which are mangled, truncated or require a full pronunciatioin lesson before every conversation.

Its a way of reminding us of our place in their eyes. I find insistence on usinig the wrong name an excellent guide to whether or not people merit more than a microsecond of my time.

@rosetylersbiggun

I've literally never met anyone above the age of about 12 who uses "Miss" and the only women I know who go by Mrs are much older women or SAHM. Ms is absolutely default and the norm where I am (London, youngish).

I'm not being ageist but I've noticed that at least a few of the posters saying they've never come across Ms in real life have also said things implying they are in their 50s or 60s. Imo it's more likely that it's a generational thing, rather than being geographic or whatever.

I've also never heard anyone use the word "Spinster" unironically, outside of period dramas!

40 something Miss here. Mainly because I used Miss when opening bank accounts many years ago so have given Miss as my title for anything else that asks for it since - utility bills, insurance etc. I don't mind Ms as a title but don't feel strongly enough about it to spend time telling all the organisations who use Miss for me that I want to change to Ms.

I did get annoyed when two different people at work who don't know me emailed me recently with the salutation Mrs Mysurname. This is in a workplace where email greetings pretty much always use just first name. I much prefer people to use my first name, or first name and surname of they want to be formal, rather than title plus surname.

The uneducated point of view is surely the one that either doesn’t know or fails to acknowledge the evidence?

The uneducated view is the one that conflates correlation and causation.

And the one that conflates marriage and parenthood.

Also (though in a lesser sense) the one that doesn’t question why it’s important that only women promote marriage through their courtesy title.