My friend’s kids make me not want my own

[Undecided123456]

I may get called a witch for this, and judged as not being cut out for motherhood - can you give me some perspective?

I have a varied group of friends with kids of different ages (babies to early teens). I am thinking about starting a family but I am having serious doubts

More recently I have been spending time with friends with younger kids and as more meet ups are suggested I find I am not looking forward to them. The kids don’t listen, they are demanding and bossy, whiny and unreasonable. The parents shout a lot and/or continually appeasing demands. I know parenting is tough, so is this just how it is? Juggling small rude dictators? Or am I only seeing a particular way of life?

Recent meet ups leave me cold, there seems little joy in it all, just trudging through with ‘it will be better when they’re at nursery/school/out of nappies/sleeping/grown out of xyz’

Am I just a non maternal person, better off out of it?

DS is 9 now x

Children are not easy.

But you might be seeing your friends children at their worst. Lockdown is a nightmare. Adult focussed meetups where mummy wants to chat with her friends don't go down brilliantly with toddlers who can get bored if expected to amuse themselves for hours/set aside their usual routine etc.

However there is bucket loads of joy in being a parent.

Ah the paradox that is having children... I didn't realise until I had them that I could love someone so much... literally more than I love for myself / would die for them etc.

But fuck me they are so irritating... but so adorable and funny ... but so very, very irritating with it.

Worth it though, couldn't imagine my life without them. I still find other people's kids quite unbearable at times, as I'm sure people also find mine

‘Juggling small rude dictators’
Spot on.
There are a lot of mums who do say ‘it will be better when....’ and tbh the milestones just move. So you have made a very accurate assessment.

Having said all that, my kids are lovely. World and his wife tell me that my kids are lovely. But it’s still fecking hard work.
Other people’s kids? Meh. I like a few of them but not most.

All children are different. Some kids are whingey, some don't listen or do as they're told, some are aggressive, some are mean to other children, some are danger-mongers who you can't take your eyes off for a second. Some children go through all these stages and then grow out of them to become lovely individuals . Some parents do get lucky and have naturally laid- back and obedient kids! Most parents have to work at it and help their children learn to consider and value others and think before they act.

@BlusteryLake

I have children and so do nearly all my friends. We still prefer to meet without the children as their presence almost always prevents adult conversation!

Oh, so much this! I find my friend's children perfectly pleasant mostly now they are all a bit older but I much prefer to see my pre children friends on an adult only basis!

I see my mum friends with the children.

Small rude dictators, yep pretty much until they're about four ish. Or tyrants, if you prefer. They have their lovely moments of course but they are all, despite what some people say, rude and annoying sometimes. They're learning.

But your own you love them anyway even when they drive you to distraction.

However I prefer the rude dictator stage to the baby stage, now THAT is a seemingly never ending trudge through the sore, milky, sleepless gates of hell!

It's a bit of both I think. I remember pre-kids being with friends/family who had kids and thinking "No fucking way will my child..." - and you know what, I don't do those things. What I thought at the time was shit parenting remains, in my view, shit parenting. How you parent is up to you. Some kids do better with x approach, others with y, but you're the parent and you (and any partner) decide what's acceptable.

But... (young, especially) kids will often act a bit "off" around adults they don't know, because they've typically been taken out of their routine and expected to behave for long stretches so mum/dad can chat to a friend. And sometimes that leads to meltdowns. And then sometimes the embarrassed parent reacts oddly because you are there watching them, so it all spirals.

They are small rude dictators who will hit you in the face and pull your hair

I've never been hit in the face or had my hair pulled by my child, I have to say.

Challenging at times though? Absolutely. But also the best thing in the world? Absolutely.

Oh I also mostly dislike other people's kids. That's normal I think.

Yeah this is parenthood.

My friends have got very different kids though. One friend has three under 5 and they're all miserable, whingey and foul tempered all of the time. Going anywhere with them is always a shit show!
But another friend has a 5yo and a 2.5yo who are both the most cheerful, sweetest things the majority of the time. Parenting style probably does have an effect. Former friend is quite irritable herself in nature, very high stress, and also quite mollycoddling. Latter friend is one of the nicest, kindest, most laid back people I know, but also firm with her kids in terms of boundaries.

Other people's kids are horrid. You'd die for your own kids tho.

I don't like other people's children much either but I love my own! And like them as human beings

I like other people’s kids. In as much as I like other adults. That is, some of them - if they’re nice people. Many aren’t, of course! But lots are.

Feral kids that aren’t patented well - no, I don’t like them.

But kids that have been well patented - they’re usually fairly delightful. That’s not say they will be perfect all of the time. And it can sometimes be in company that even move kids may not necessarily be at their best - because they’re excited, with other friends, etc.

But I very much agree with whoever upthread said ‘not wanting kids because you don’t like other people’s, is like not wanting to get married because other people’s husbands are malignant oafs’.

It’s OK not to want children. And if you think you don’t want them, just don’t have them. There are enough sub-par parents - and sub-par kids as a result - that there’s nothing to be gained from adding to them!

I find most children very annoying. Never felt very maternal or certain that I wanted children. Had a surprise baby a year ago and I love her so much I sometimes feel like my heart could burst.

On the other hand I perfectly understand why some women choose not to have children and I respect that decision. It is a lot of hard work and I am not the same person I was pre-baby at all.

I like other DC too, they're cute even when being wicked. I'm genuinely interested in them when I ask after them.
I like on my way to the shop the little voices "hi * mam" some say "will you bring me back a lolly please"
I like my own the best most days.

Exactly how it is BUT I love my kids. I'm not a fan of other people’s children

These threads never make much sense to me. 20 years of having a child. 0-5 young and dependent, 5-10 primary school, 10-15 teen hell, 15-20 A levels and off to uni.

It's not all that long at each stage. Life expectancy is 70+ after all.

At the end of it you have adult children who hopefully are contributing positively to society and bring joy to your old age. Seems very much worth the sacrifice and struggle in the short to medium term, all else being equal.

@MerryDecembermas you say that as though everyone's experiences are identical, it's not quite so formulaic as that. Some people have one child, some have five. They don't all follow the path you describe.

That's why the OP perhaps shouldn't think that her child, if she decides to have one, will be the same as her friends children.

You do love them, op. You can’t help it. They seem to be hell bent sometimes on trying to stop you from loving them... but it never works. Mother Nature is a powerful force.

Mine has taken to physically assaulting me if I try to kiss or hug her. I still keep trying. (She’s only 2)

I have 3 of my own children and some of my friends kids make me think but a lot is down to parenting, boundaries and following through. One of my friends kids I love spending time with while another friends son I could happily not see but when you watch the parenting of him it’s easy to see why he behaves badly. An example with not making him share as it’s his toy and he did bring it to play with but when he wanted my friend whose child was much younger toy the same mother then said but you get that toy all the time and he has never played with it before. My own children were horrified by that behaviour and they are kids and when the younger child come back to my house that day they tried to donate all the similar toys the other friends DS wouldn’t share and she could keep them.
As a parent you pick your battles but you are also raising them to have values and good personality traits and with your own you get to do that and get pride in good behaviour which is different to watching a friends child just behaving badly.

I really like dogs, but walking past dog shit on the street makes me gag, and I honestly can't imagine the horrendous thought of having to pick up fresh dog shit every day for years and years. Be prepared to get up at their whim to let them outside or have to go through the long hard slog of puppy training. I think maybe, I will love a dog so much that I wouldn't mind these things, and fear my kids are missing out on not growing up with loving a family dog... But it's really not worth the risk of me resenting or regretting so we remain dog free just as I think you should remain child free. You have hugely unrealistic and intolerant expectations of normal child behaviour and already have a superiority complex about it (you said you and your husband are reasonable people so it will probably be fine... Which suggests you blame the normal child behaviour you've observed on your friends being unreasonable).

I think what you wanted from this post is everyone to tell you that only badly parented kids behave like this and yours will be better behaved and more lovable because you will be sensible and raise them right.

I had zero doubts I would love children of my own, and the yearning I had for them was a physical ache, and I had very strong maternal feelings to children of friends and family, and I still have found parenting very very hard. I really don't think it's something you should go for if you aren't sure.

@user64332

Most people only realise what 'normal child behaviour' is when they have their own. They might know other children but don't spend every second of the day with them until they have their own.

The OP does not have a superiority complex because she says they are reasonable people, that's a ridiculous statement. Most of us can separate the normal behaviours of children from the poorly behaved children and often, not always, yes it is poor parenting. There's no way to dress that up nicely.

You may have 'yearned' for children. I, and many others, did not but turned out to be bloody good parents with great kids. No it's not easy, I don't think anyone has said that it is.

The OP may decide that parenthood is not for her, but that should be based on her own feelings, not because you've taken offence to the wording of her post.

@Ladyofmainlyleisure

You don’t have to want kids.

Yes, they moan, whine, are ungrateful, expensive and disrupt fun adult things.

You love them but don’t always like them.

Get a dog instead is my advise. Childfree and love it!

Spot on!

I find babies and young children intensely infuriating and disruptive and I'm glad I never had any.

I like them a lot more when they get into double figures, and become more interesting. I positively like teenagers, get on well with them and sometimes wish I'd fostered one or two. I find them quite managable, once you accept that they're all wild emotion, hormones, rebellion and no common sense.

When my late partner's niece was a teen, there were times when (according to her mum) I was the only person who could get through to her. She's 19 now, and an absolutely lovely person.

I don't think it's a sign you wouldn't love your own OP, I feel exactly the same about other people's kids but adore my own. It's common. But yes it is often somewhat how you described. It does vary from parent to parent and child to child, though.

I don't like other peoples kids they are so annoying. Your own on the other hand is completely different.