To think personal responsibility no longer exists

[Wondermule]

I know this is going to be a controversial post, so I’ve got my hard hat on 🪖

It has really dawned on me how little personal responsibility people take now. Every other thread seems to be someone posting to offload their problems (financially dependant relationship, COVID worries due to high BMI, hellish mother in law among the most common) yet there is always an excuse about why they can’t the advice given, usually drip feeding something about anxiety or mental health. Please don’t see this as me making light of mental health issues (sufferer here myself), but it doesn’t change the fact only you can make changes to your life.

Also many posts citing ‘lack of support’ - this one inspired by the chocolate button debacle! - a mum feeding her 3 month old chocolate buttons just didn’t have the ‘support’ or ‘education’ to make healthy choices apparently. Never mind the healthy start vouchers for fruit and veg, maternity grant, free weaning courses at children’s centres, all the help available online... it’s all the state’s fault. I feel ‘lack of support’ will be cited until the government send someone to prepare all her meals and police her shopping trolley.

I feel in being too sympathetic, it is just providing excuses for people not to take responsibility for their own choices. Or am I wrong??

I think that we are encouraged to seek professional help and advice with many aspects of our lives now. The consequence may be that people have less confidence to manage issues on their own.

@Halloweenrainbow

I think that we are encouraged to seek professional help and advice with many aspects of our lives now. The consequence may be that people have less confidence to manage issues on their own.

Yeo. There aren’t enough counsellors in the world to provide help to the people that apparently need it on mumsnet...

YANBU at all

I fully agree, OP, but then I think MN has a high percentage of users with MH issues, and you only need to look at the last year to see that. The Covid hysteria is still in full flow, and isn't remotely proportional to real life. I had to come off here for months because I couldn't cope with it.

I personally think the whole mental health awareness campaigns have done people more of a disservice than a benefit. I find when I'm struggling, the last place I want to be is inside my own head...... sometimes you need to look up and see the bigger picture.

At the risk of sounding like a cranky old gimmer, I despair at the whining 'no one told us' I hear from the younger generation sometimes!

Then that’s a failing on the older generation to not teach the younger one properly. How about the older generations take a bit of responsibility for how these children are turning out?

OP this is the best post I've seen for a while.

I 100% agree with you and this victim mentality is ruining society - or certainly will in years to come.

People's failures always seem to be someone else's fault. It's sad and is a real problem in the modern day.

👏👏 to your post

I agree with many of the comments on here. The resilience thing is interesting and it is a word that gets thrown around a lot. What do people mean by it? Physically resilient and emotionally resilient or very different? Are some people naturally more resilient? How do you teach resilience? Does resilience come from experiencing failure(unlikely in my opinion)? Does it come from success? From self confidence? Tough experiences seem to make us weaker, not stronger. We are told to teach children to be resilient but I don’t think it is that simple.

I agree OP.

We are all responsible for the choices we make in life. Be it diet/exercise, finances, partners, children etc. There is so much more information out there than previous generations that it takes seconds to find answers to things.

Some just expect everything to do be done for them or handed to them for little or no effort.

@Lanzo resilience comes from being used to failure yes in the main. And understanding from an early age that if you fail at something you try harder next time.

Resilience is NOT - giving everyone a medal in the race because they participated for example and it would be too awful to award winners on the basis the losers may get upset, and you will find this a lot nowadays.

Winning at something is now deemed a bad thing and it's doing nothing to prepare children for the real world. That's just one example I can give.

I am with OP all the way. But because of the very issue mentioned here, where if you dare telling it like it is you get people jumping at your throat, hardly anyone dares. Yes of course some people have anxiety or an eating disorder. But are some of you really saying this is the case for the majority of people who cite those reasons?

@Wondermule

Orangutan, how do you tell the difference?

I have diagnosed anxiety, depression, OCD, autism and dyslexia. My brain is a mess, that's the hand I've been dealt. I have never used any as an excuse for my behaviour. I do the "I have autism so I struggle with time keeping, therefore, I have to set more alarms, aim to be ready early and I can relax while waiting to set off and plan to set off so I arrive 20 minutes early, also factoring in that traffic could be bad so allow 10 minutes for every 30 minutes journey time. So I wont be late" rather than "I'm autistic so I'm late."

You can have mental health issues and disabilities while still taking control of your own life, and alot of people who ask advice on here while suffering with mental health issues, aren't actually asking for someone to solve their problems for them, they're asking how to solve the problem themself, there are some who just refuse every bit of advice but mostly people say "yeah that's a good idea, I'll do that" asking advice isn't a bad thing.

Theres a difference between someone saying "I have anxiety so I struggle with this" and "I have anxiety, I cant do that."

Ask yourself, "are they trying to fix the problem they're in?" If someone is trying then they're trying, some people just aren't trying and sit there complaining that the problem hasn't been fixed by someone else.

Anyone else laughing at the BE KIND, YOU NASTY FUCKER type posts?

I said repeatedly, my post is not about those who cannot change their circumstances such as impoverished children. How many times.

Except that those children in a few years will be adults and if they fuck up, or struggle they'll be sneered at and branded x,y,z by people like you for not being strong enough and working hard enough.

Or they are the adults now ,who you have no idea what background they have , how their development was affected , how their brain was affected.

Indeed ,going back years and years there would've been a lot less of them. Because they were institutionalised ,living on the streets or dead, not really having a chance to be seen as a failure by your standards.

Mollycoddling.

You’re not allowed to point anything out because it’s “unkind” and upsets people.

“Lovebombing” kids while not giving the any responsibilities.

Every molehill turned into a mountain,drama,drama,drama.

Crippling anxiety, not being able to stand up for yourself,let people bully the others “to avoid the confrontation”

Lack of discipline in bringing up kids,lack of discipline in society(e.g. littering,dog poo issue)

Where the heck it all went wrong?

I agree with you op.
Not in a harsh ‘people just need to get on with it’ as it’s not their fault, but people often don’t seek help or are proactive at all. I often deal with people who just expect other people to solve their issues for them. If you ask what they’ve done about it, it’s often nothing and lots of excuses of why they can’t.
I’m not unempathetic as I know it’s not easy but you never know if you don’t try.
(Of course, I know there are those who do try etc I’m not talking about that)

• Think of it this way- if you had an illness, wheat would you prefer to be told?

1. Theres really nothing you can do about your situation, its very bleak and you may as well just give up and let others do everything for you. Theres really no point in trying to change this situation. Just stay passive and do nothing.Theres no point in even trying.

or:

1. You have an illness that has many challenges. However, with the right mind set you can potentially make lots of positive steps forward and can look towards gaining back your independence. There is hope that you can achieve many things you didnt think you would and your progress is limitless. Lets try and get you to where you want to be.*

Bullshit. Those aren't the only two options. None of the people disagreeing with OP even hinted at number 1.
It's about understanding that just because someone fucks up (even repeatedly) doesn't necessarily mean they are feckless,lazy ,weak and don't even try. It's OP that is reducing people to their failures or inability to cope with certain things.

OP's(and other posters' options to your scenario) are:
1.you get better(no other option) and it has to be done in a prescribed way. No half ways,no tries.

1. If you don't it's all your fault.

Sometimes medical illnesses even with the best treatment and will and hard work in the world , still claim the patient and end in death or permanent,irreparable damage.

Sometimes,the same happens with mental health illnesses.

just because someone fucks up (even repeatedly) doesn't necessarily mean they are feckless,lazy ,weak and don't even try.

Never said that. The projection on this thread is quite something to behold!

[quote tootsytoo]@Lanzo resilience comes from being used to failure yes in the main. And understanding from an early age that if you fail at something you try harder next time.

Resilience is NOT - giving everyone a medal in the race because they participated for example and it would be too awful to award winners on the basis the losers may get upset, and you will find this a lot nowadays.

Winning at something is now deemed a bad thing and it's doing nothing to prepare children for the real world. That's just one example I can give.

[/quote]
Some people deal with failure by trying not to care about it too much and muddle on. Other people care about it too much and give up. Some people care about it so much they won’t accept it and constantly try to succeed. Which of those is the most resilient and the most desirable? The first one is probably the most common and the one that most children that I teach are like.

@PPNC

I struggle with this because I have PTSD, stressful job, EA ex, rape case ongoing, have been through the mill and still keep putting one foot in front of the other, seek help when I need it, try to make good choices.

So when I see whining self pity and it being someone else’s fault I just think FFS get a grip and sort it out.

BUT I am critically aware I had a solid upbringing that gifted me resilience and problem solving. Not everyone has that, these offloading of responsibility are often a result of socialisation and learned behaviour.

So I try not to judge because there but for the grace of whatever force you believe in and all that!

Love a lot . Trust a few . But always paddle your own canoe

Sometimes medical illnesses even with the best treatment and will and hard work in the world , still claim the patient and end in death or permanent,irreparable damage

Yes, I know this, I have a serious chronic illness that I can only manage. There’s no cure and I assume it will bring about my death one day.

@Lanzo it depends what level of failure we are talking about but people have to get used to it at a basic level to get through life.

Otherwise what will you do at job interviews? Stop applying because you 'muddled on' and end up in a career you hate as a result?

Failure in my opinion is a concept people have to get comfortable with. Because it helps cope with life.

In life inevitable you will encounter failure at some point - whether it be the relationship you're in doesn't work out, the job you applied for etc and how you bounce back from it is very important. If you become riddled with anxiety because you don't understand the concept of it then you'll have issues.

@Lanzo you also didn't mention in your example those that fail at something, try harder and as a result end up succeeding!!

Totally agree OP. It’s always someone else’s fault. Always. Mainly weak parents who didn’t teach their children to be resilient. Work cultures are changing to accommodate this weakness. It’s interesting to watch.

I take my inspiration from these fab words from the song Naughty in the musical Matilda - “nobody else is going to put it right for me, nobody but me is going change my story”. I agree with you OP, people need to take more personal responsibility. It’s not always someone else’s fault!

[quote tootsytoo]@Lanzo you also didn't mention in your example those that fail at something, try harder and as a result end up succeeding!! [/quote]
True but that is when everything goes well. There are quite a few times when children try harder and don’t succeed. That is when teaching resilience is tough and why children get given awards that are a bit fake. They need some encouragement along the way.