Shamima Begum cannot return.....

[Lillylolo]

What are your opinions?

I feel that her dual heritage has been used against her, to push her towards Bangladesh.

However, I do feel she is a threat to the general public and it would be incredibly difficult to control/monitor her actions. Which may put the rest of the population at risk.

This is just an open debate. Let’s try not to rip each other apart, more of a healthy debate

Syria decided to send some terrorists here and refused to have them back?

The U.K. didn’t send Shamima Begum to Syria. Your comparison is faulty. Any fighter sent by a nation to another nation to kill people does so as part of their military.

Jack Lett's was a white UK citizen who also joined ISIS and had citizenship revoked so no, not racist and perfectly consistent with Begin

He had dual citizenship. She doesn’t.

Not consistent at all.

@victoriaspongecake

If she was white and blonde and called Lucy or Charlotte and had a nice “English” speaking voice no one would even be having this conversation. People would be saying we need to get her home. She was a child who was radicalised. She needs help not hatred.

I’m going to call bullshit on that. The other U.K. woman who joined ISIS was blonde and blue eyed by name of Sally and the U.K. had their US allies kill her in 2017 in a drone strike.

@PlanDeRaccordement you don't think 100's of people have returned after joining ISIS? Really?

Our opinions on here mean nothing. The supreme Court has ruled that she will not be allowed to return.
End of.

@TheKeatingFive

Jack Lett's was a white UK citizen who also joined ISIS and had citizenship revoked so no, not racist and perfectly consistent with Begin

He had dual citizenship. She doesn’t.

Not consistent at all.

Actually Begum had dual U.K. and Bangladesh citizenship. The Bangladesh citizenship was by virtue of being born to a Bangladeshi mother. She just never applied for a Bangladesh passport.

Similar to Boris Johnson. He had US citizenship because he was born there. He never applied for a US passport, but he had to pay taxes and he had to revoke his citizenship to get rid of it.

You can’t “opt out” of citizenship by never getting a passport because many millions of people are citizens but never get a passport because they have no desire to travel.

[quote 50WaysToLeaveYourLover]@PlanDeRaccordement you don't think 100's of people have returned after joining ISIS? Really? [/quote]
The twitter feed said 100% have returned, not 100s....unless my eyes are seeing it wrong.

Actually Begum had dual U.K. and Bangladesh citizenship.

She never availed of it, got a passport or indeed stepped foot in the country.

To make it Bangladesh’s problem is utterly dishonest and unfair. They have no responsibility for her or her actions.

Honestly, imagine if another country tried to do that and foist a criminal onto the U.K. who’d never even visited the country. You’d be up in arms and you know it.

@PlanDeRaccordement it says 100s

My eyes saw it wrong. Apologies. Yes 100s have returned, I thought it said 100% when they say around 900 British left to join ISIS. About 20% or 180 of those 900 were killed on the battlefield, 40% remain in the region and 40% have returned to the UK. That means that about 360 people who are deemed to be a security concern have travelled to Iraq and Syria and since returned. Of those 720 living people, more than 100 have been deprived of their British citizenship. It will take time to address each case. The Nuremberg Trials of the Nazis are still going on so to expect every ISIS member to have faced justice only a few years afterwards is unrealistic.

If she came to UK any punishment would be trivial and she would be free in no time to murder infidels, which was her aim. If she was tried in Syria, if found guilty, she would get a long custodial sentence which she deserves. She still says she agrees with with IS and it's aims. That is why she is do dangerous and losing 3 children is nothing to do with it. If she had stayed here and had children here the chances are 3 of her children would not have died.

@TheKeatingFive

Actually Begum had dual U.K. and Bangladesh citizenship.

She never availed of it, got a passport or indeed stepped foot in the country.

To make it Bangladesh’s problem is utterly dishonest and unfair. They have no responsibility for her or her actions.

It’s not making it Bangladesh’s problem at all. Begum can live anywhere she wants to in the world except the U.K.. Bangladesh doesn’t have to prosecute her or anything. She is free to live as an expat.

It's not illegal stripping someone of their citizenship in other countries, in Italy it can be done for treason, and you can become effectively stateless.

Regarding bringing her back here so she can be tried under UK law, there are lots of British citizens abroad who are in jail or even facing executions, but they cannot be extradited.

(Sorry for typos, english is not my first language)

It’s not making it Bangladesh’s problem at all.

Yes you are, otherwise she’s stateless. Don’t be disingenuous.

The U.K. cannot treat other countries like that, it’s appalling behaviour.

Actually Begum had dual U.K. and Bangladesh citizenship. The Bangladesh citizenship was by virtue of being born to a Bangladeshi mother. She just never applied for a Bangladesh passport.

Not true. She had eligibility to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship (and this eligibility has since been revoked by the Bangladeshi government).

By default Bangladesh doesn’t allow dual citizenship- it’s something that must be applied for and is only allowed in certain circumstances, and Begum never made any such application.

She is stateless and was stateless at the time the Home office removed her British citizenship.

@ChallengerDeep
Exactly. Stripping citizenship isn’t illegal in most countries. It’s not in the U.K. either. And it doesn’t have to be treason or a crime. It can be simple as a country that doesn’t allow dual citizenship, can strip you of their citizenship if you apply to naturalise anywhere else. Singapore does this. If a Singapore person emigrates to say the U.K. and wants to naturalise and get British citizenship, they automatically lose their Singapore citizenship. For some dual citizens, voluntarily joining the armed forces of one of their countries of citizenship means automatic loss of all other citizenships...even if the countries are allies.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@ChallengerDeep
Exactly. Stripping citizenship isn’t illegal in most countries. It’s not in the U.K. either. And it doesn’t have to be treason or a crime. It can be simple as a country that doesn’t allow dual citizenship, can strip you of their citizenship if you apply to naturalise anywhere else. Singapore does this. If a Singapore person emigrates to say the U.K. and wants to naturalise and get British citizenship, they automatically lose their Singapore citizenship. For some dual citizens, voluntarily joining the armed forces of one of their countries of citizenship means automatic loss of all other citizenships...even if the countries are allies.[/quote]
No one is saying stripping someone of their citizenship is illegal. We’re saying leaving someone stateless is illegal under international law.

This is no different to Jack Letts. He was brought up in the UK.

Oh, but that doesn’t suit those of you screaming racist!!!

I feel sorry for her in the case that she was 15 and groomed, but now she’s older and wiser, been through a war and lost 3 DC.......and yet she’s still supporting them. She is very dangerous.

I do think what the UK is doing is dodgy but the offset is more dead Brits in a home terrorist attack.

No thanks.

@Dannydevitoiloveyourart

Actually Begum had dual U.K. and Bangladesh citizenship. The Bangladesh citizenship was by virtue of being born to a Bangladeshi mother. She just never applied for a Bangladesh passport.

Not true. She had eligibility to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship (and this eligibility has since been revoked by the Bangladeshi government).

By default Bangladesh doesn’t allow dual citizenship- it’s something that must be applied for and is only allowed in certain circumstances, and Begum never made any such application.

She is stateless and was stateless at the time the Home office removed her British citizenship.

You have the order all wrong. Shamima Begum had British and Bangladeshi citizenship. U.K. stripped her of her British citizenship Bangladesh then stripped her of her Bangladesh citizenship Now she is stateless.

The courts now have to decide what to do. Typically, which ever country strips first gets to keep it that way. The country that strips last violates the UN 1961 Stateless Convention, but some countries are not members of UN or don’t feel like they have to follow UN policies.

SHE NEVER HAD BANGLADESHI CITIZENSHIP. She had ELIGIBILITY to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship. Which she no longer even has.

Arguing that having eligibility for citizenship is the same as actually having that citizenship, and therefore Shamima is not actually stateless, is like saying someone living on the streets is not actually homeless just because they may be eligible for council housing.

I’m done with this thread. All the points being made now have been made and debunked over and over throughout this thread.

@Dannydevitoiloveyourart
No one is saying stripping someone of their citizenship is illegal. We’re saying leaving someone stateless is illegal under international law.

Well it’s a UN convention, not international law for one. And secondly, Begum wasn’t stateless after her British citizenship was stripped. She only later became stateless when Bangladesh revoked her citizenship there. The fact she never registered makes no difference because she inherited her citizenship at birth from her mother. Children have until 18 years of age to choose in these cases when born dual but one country or both do not allow dual citizenship. She was under 18 when she chose to not be British by leaving to take up arms against the U.K. The day she joined ISIS she chose to be Bangladesh, not British.

Agree with others she was radicalised not groomed. It’s an insult to those innocent people who are groomed for sexual assault to conflate the two. She wasn’t trafficked either she made a complex journey across several countries with her 2 friends. It was sad she was radicalised so you but so were many, perhaps all terrorists who commuted crimes in this country we don’t suggest sending them back to their families to be cared for and given therapy.

She made her bed and she can lie in it. Wouldn’t want the nasty little cow back here. If her family want to see her they can fly to Syria or wherever she is

@Dannydevitoiloveyourart
*SHE NEVER HAD BANGLADESHI CITIZENSHIP. She had ELIGIBILITY to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship. Which she no longer even has. Arguing that having eligibility for citizenship is the same as actually having that citizenship..l

Yes it is the same. If you meet the requirements to be a citizen, you are a de facto citizen regardless of whether you’ve filed paperwork and paid fees to a Home Office type Department.

Your mistaken view that it is not the same legally is exactly how the Windrush scandal happened. Numerous British people eligible for British citizenship but had never done the paperwork to claim their citizenship were wrongly deported by the U.K. back to Jamaica and elsewhere. They have since been apologised to, compensated and fast tracked free citizenship papers.