Shamima Begum cannot return.....

[Lillylolo]

What are your opinions?

I feel that her dual heritage has been used against her, to push her towards Bangladesh.

However, I do feel she is a threat to the general public and it would be incredibly difficult to control/monitor her actions. Which may put the rest of the population at risk.

This is just an open debate. Let’s try not to rip each other apart, more of a healthy debate

@SuperSimple

It's about race just because you say so? I thought it was about not allowing someone, who happens to have a descendant based claim to another state citizenship, back into the country when they pose such a serious threat to national security .

But your argument is, its because she's brown?

I don’t care about the race point anymore. Whatever race she is, she should not be stripped of her citizenship as not only this sets a dangerous precedent, it effectively means we have exported a terrorist out there and let them loose on other people’s countries who have no means of dealing with the situation for a very long time. This is terrorism export.

her crimes dealt with by the U.K. justice system

How’s that going to work with no evidence on which to charge her?

When I said I don’t care about the race point anymore, I did not wish to minimise anyone else’s experience. I am just saying it’s bigger than the race issue now.

@VinylDetective

her crimes dealt with by the U.K. justice system

How’s that going to work with no evidence on which to charge her?

So you are saying we have stripped her of her citizenship even though there is no evidence she is a terrorist

As a mother of teenage DDs I believe she should allowed to return -and obviously closely monitored.
She was 15 when she left, still a child! She was probably groomed and definitely naive.
We should be asking why a 15 year old British girl found herself in this situation.
I think the British government has used her as a publicity stunt to appease , for want of a better definition! , daily mail readers and their like ( thou admittedly when i am allowed to visit DM i have been known to read her daily mail😂)

No, @Thewithesarehere, that isn’t what I’m saying at all sigh.

We know she’s a terrorist but our legal system requires a crime to have been committed with evidence and witnesses. Given her acts of terrorism were committed in Syria, how will the CPS be able to bring charges? The only crime she appears to have committed here is theft of a passport.

Reading this thread is disturbing.
The amount of 'she made her bed, let her lie in it' and 'this country has better things to worry about' and 'would you want her as your neighbour' and 'let her stay where she is' is shocking. Do these posters think that the UK is superior to other countries or that
the war torn, traumatised and poverty stricken syrian population want to live with the very people who terrorised them and somehow they should deal with UK born terrorists? Why?

@SuperSimple

It's about race just because you say so? I thought it was about not allowing someone, who happens to have a descendant based claim to another state citizenship, back into the country when they pose such a serious threat to national security .

But your argument is, its because she's brown?

Why does her heritage matter when she has only had actual legal citizenship in the UK? When she has never traveled to or stepped foot inside the country you are suggesting is her alternative citizenship? When that country has made it clear that she is not and never will be a citizen?

Yes it’s because she is brown. Both me and my husband have foreign parents. Both of us were born British and on British soil. I’m black, he’s white. His nationality is never questioned. Mine is all the time. He has eligibility to apply for a German passport but until he does he is British only - a fact that no one has ever questioned. Whereas, I get referred to by my racial heritage all the time (I.e. “my Nigerian daughter in law” even though I don’t have a Nigerian passport and haven’t ever been to Nigeria before.

If you don’t think white British second generation nationals are treated differently to brown British ones, then you’re being wilfully ignorant. Ignorant of the windrush scandal, and ignorant of the social and racial implications of the Home office decision stripping Shamima of her only nationality.

@Thewithesarehere
Plenty apparently to show she is considered a threat to national security.

@Dannydevitoiloveyourart
Jack Letts is your answer.
I know that their is racism running through our society but I object to it being used as some kind of defence in this situation.

@VinylDetective

No, *@Thewithesarehere*, that isn’t what I’m saying at all sigh.

We know she’s a terrorist but our legal system requires a crime to have been committed with evidence and witnesses. Given her acts of terrorism were committed in Syria, how will the CPS be able to bring charges? The only crime she appears to have committed here is theft of a passport.

I am pretty sure we could have spent all that money on creating a treaty with Syria to overcome this situation. Would have been a much more time and cost efficient system. But it wouldn’t have made the politicians look good so they though they could try and gain some more popular votes and divide the British public some more so we keep arguing with each other and don’t find time to ask the hard questions from them.

[quote Blackberrycream]@Thewithesarehere
Plenty apparently to show she is considered a threat to national security.[/quote]
I was replying to another poster who said we don’t have enough evidence to convict her here.

I know. There are reasons why national security has been held to be more important than her right to return. A trial here is clearly problematic. In all likelihood, she would not be convicted.

@Blackberrycream

I know. There are reasons why national security has been held to be more important than her right to return. A trial here is clearly problematic. In all likelihood, she would not be convicted.

In that case (and I am pretty sure we have sufficient evidence to take a step like stripping a citizenship), we should have spent all this money to create a treaty with Syria to dea with this legal loophole. Would have been far more efficient, would have put far more terrorists behind bars for far longer and would have saved all this division in the public opinion. If she comes back and she’s the government, that is yet another cost the tax payer will pay for the stupid ideas our politicians came up with to gain some political points and to cover up their own blunders.

[quote Blackberrycream]@Dannydevitoiloveyourart
Jack Letts is your answer.
I know that their is racism running through our society but I object to it being used as some kind of defence in this situation.[/quote]
Jack Letts already had dual citizenship. Yes through his father but it had already been obtained prior to his British citizenship being removed.

He also in his own words said he feels more Canadian than British, that he travelled regularly to Canada growing up and that his family are all there.

I don’t agree with the British government offloading responsibility on Canada when Jack was born and raised here but it’s not the same legal situation as in Shamima’s case where she genuinely doesn’t have any other legal citizenship.

There are many precedents where two countries have done some sort of agreement to share mutual knowledge on terrorist activities. Pakistan and USA are a prime example of this.

@Dannydevitoiloveyourart

By law she is entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship on a descendant basis, and that is why she was stripped of her UK citizenship .

I'm not denying your lived experience. But are you seriously suggesting that if, for example, your husband were to join ISIS and then ask to come back to the UK, that the Home Office would not do the same in his case? His parents are German citizens, he has a right to German citizenship, but you believe he would not be stripped of his British citizenship because of his whiteness?

I don't think its down to school staff...haven't they enough to be doing?

They certainly have, but weren't schools co-opted in delivering the Prevent strategy?
Only of course that was deemed "racist" too, so they'd probably have been terrified to say anything even if suspicious activity had been noticed

For those asking what crimes she's committed here, I thought joining or supporting a terrorist organisation had been made a crime in itself? Probably it wouldn't attract the same sort of sentence as an actual terrorist atrocity though, which is all grist to the mill of those who'd be determined she should never be in jail

And to hell with the safety of everyone else

It is Bangladesh that decided not to allow her the citizenship after the fact.

[quote SuperSimple]@Dannydevitoiloveyourart

By law she is entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship on a descendant basis, and that is why she was stripped of her UK citizenship .

I'm not denying your lived experience. But are you seriously suggesting that if, for example, your husband were to join ISIS and then ask to come back to the UK, that the Home Office would not do the same in his case? His parents are German citizens, he has a right to German citizenship, but you believe he would not be stripped of his British citizenship because of his whiteness?[/quote]
Exactly why should Bengladesh take care of a problem that was created by the U.K. is beyond me.
Like I said, as per this thread, all countries are equal, but some countries are more equal than others.

When discussing her purported citizenship of Bangladesh, what relevance is it that she's never been there? Either, she has a claim to citizenship there or she does not (OK they're not interested in awarding it to her anyway).

As I remember it though, at the time at which that little squirt whose name I've forgotten removed her UK citizenship, she still theoretically at least, had a claim to Bangladeshi citizenship. Her having visited there or not is beside the point, was then is now.

As the UK has disavowed her then isn't it Bangladesh who are, or would be, the ones leaving her stateless?

@Jux

When discussing her purported citizenship of Bangladesh, what relevance is it that she's never been there? Either, she has a claim to citizenship there or she does not (OK they're not interested in awarding it to her anyway).

As I remember it though, at the time at which that little squirt whose name I've forgotten removed her UK citizenship, she still theoretically at least, had a claim to Bangladeshi citizenship. Her having visited there or not is beside the point, was then is now.

As the UK has disavowed her then isn't it Bangladesh who are, or would be, the ones leaving her stateless?

Exactly

@Puzzledandpissedoff

I don't think its down to school staff...haven't they enough to be doing?

They certainly have, but weren't schools co-opted in delivering the Prevent strategy?
Only of course that was deemed "racist" too, so they'd probably have been terrified to say anything even if suspicious activity had been noticed

For those asking what crimes she's committed here, I thought joining or supporting a terrorist organisation had been made a crime in itself? Probably it wouldn't attract the same sort of sentence as an actual terrorist atrocity though, which is all grist to the mill of those who'd be determined she should never be in jail

And to hell with the safety of everyone else

I am not worried about that aspect to be fair. I think if we have sufficient evidence to think we can strip her citizenship, we can definitely try her in court and send her to jail. Problem is why should that be the problem of a country that is dealing with thousands of British terrorists? It’s not like a case of someone smuggling a drug or commuting some other isolated crime. It’s a completely different problem and a country like Syria can not be lumbered with it. It’s our mess and we should clean it.

Leave her where she is, she left on by her own free will, opposing the UK and supporting terrorism with it.
It was thevright decision, let her in and it then sets the bar for any former anti UK terrorist to return.

Exactly why should Bengladesh take care of a problem that was created by the U.K. is beyond me.

Yes because Islamic terrorism is a british-only problem.